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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#381
post #255

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

If you ignore laptops, then Micro-B basically did charge everything in my house. The introduction of USB-C made things worse, because now I have to deal with both connectors.

Only until everything is USB-C ;-}

Like in 10 years when due to innovation we start migration to another standard...

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#382
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that Switch cannot use Apple's charger with the dock. It literally complains about the cable being wrong.

The dock is a special case and requires some specific voltage/amperage support. But the switch itself abides by EU regulations.

65W Apple charger.... My Lenovo 65W USB-C charger had no issues at all.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#383
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo’s Switch plug happens to physically and electrically seem to accept USB-C charger connectors, but it’s not a USB-C plug, and the Switch should not be considered compatible just because it uses a similar plug. Nintendo should have taken more steps with their charger to restrict the Switch to authorized chargers only, rather than permitting unsupported chargers (such as standard USB-C ones) from being able to…

All (or most) of the reports of switches being bricked stem for 3rd party docks, where the dock is at fault and using 9v for signal pins, see https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c-of-ninte...

Whether or not this is the case, Nintendo makes it very clear in their warranty that using an unauthorized charger is not covered. They definitely did not intend for it to be a universal port.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#384
post #338
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chargers that use standard plugs should also be made to support the standard or they should be held legally responsible. In this particular case I think even well-known name brand chargers which follow standards (Apple, Anker) are breaking the Nintendo, and that's unacceptable.

All of this just underscores what a terrible standard USB-C is. You have no idea what's what anymore by looking at it. Everything seems to fit together, but if you do it, you damage your devices. It would have been better if they'd launched another dozen different plug standards. In situations when there's only one thing you should be connecting to your device, that's the way to go. Universal sockets only make sense…

All of this just underscores what a terrible standard USB-C is.

Nothing above seems related to the standard. At the end of the day, its still comes down to the manufacturers to follow the standard in order for everything to to work. But the standard itself can't stop any particular manufacturer from making a non-compliant product.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#385

I'm just surprised there are still a lot of mainstream accessories that aren't available in USB-C. I bought a Logitech C920 webcam the other day (the most pouplar model)... and it's still only available in USB-A. If you want a Logitech webcam with USB-C, you've got to pay over twice as much for a model like their StreamCam. I'm happy to use dongles for HDMI or Ethernet when I have to. But the fact that I still have t…

And that doesn't even get into Keyboards, Mice, USB Headphones/sound cards, printers, USB storage keys, bluetooth/gaming keyboard dongles...

The list of peripherals not broadly (if at all) available in USB-C is nuts.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why ? You have the same plug but it's not actually compatible - this to me is a good example of confusion - I would be the first to assume you can charge it with whatever USB-C power cable available and not bother checking the docs.

It's like saying that because one concrete house collapsed because the architect didn't properly so it's job concrete house are bad in general. Also most charger are fully compatible with the switch off I remember correctly the only way to fry your switch with a charger is by using a charger with high voltage/amper support with a cable which doesn't support any form of fast charging and even then it might not happen.…

It's like saying that because one concrete house collapsed because the architect didn't properly so it's job concrete house are bad in general.

I'd actually say its more like building a failed structure out of something that looks like, but actually isn't, concrete, and then saying that concrete is a terrible material to use for buildings.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#387
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USB Consortium’s licensing strategy is to restrict what people can label with the USB logo, by holding trademark over that logo. You then have to work out an arrangement with them, in order for your hardware to proclaim itself as USB-compatible by using the logo. This is their “in” to ensure you’re doing USB correctly. The Nintendo charging port is not labelled with a USB logo. It’s fundamentally not a USB-C port…

Interestingly in the UK, Nintendo _explicitly_ label it as a USB-C port. I'm not sure if they do or not elsewhere, but they definitely claim it's a USB-C port 'for AC charging' over here. https://imgur.com/a/fwTM699

Alright, I guess I was wrong above; it certain is a "USB-C connector port." In fact, I would even say that it is a "USB port" (although they can't say that for licensing reasons.) Nintendo seem to expect and encourage you to plug USB-C peripherals into said port (e.g. any random USB game controller.) Nintendo will support such configurations just fine. You're not voiding your warranty by doing that.

What the port isn't, is a USB certified port. USB certification guarantees that it'll be safe to plug any USB-certified thing into any other USB-certified thing. Without that certification, the device isn't guaranteeing its ability to handle weird things that other USB devices might do—like sending it lots of current without doing a specific proprietary negotiation first.

It's a bit like FCC certification for "accepting radio interference." Devices that have it, are guaranteed to not melt down/throw sparks if you bring them close to e.g. HV power lines, or a radio tower. Devices that don't have it, aren't guaranteed to not do that. They might or they might not; but they weren't required to be tested to find out if they would.

But unlike FCC certification, where it's illegal to sell something in the US containing an antenna if it's not FCC certified, it's entirely legal to produce and market a device that has USB connectors, but isn't USB certified. There's nothing stopping companies from doing it—other than the expectation that consumers might care about the USB logo being on the product. If a company thinks consumers won't care about that in their case, they have no reason to bother.

(That's not to say Nintendo shouldn't have made their product fail safe under out-of-tolerance conditions from other USB devices anyway. It would just be good engineering to do that, even if you don't want to pay the licensing fee. But they didn't think to test for those conditions—likely because the USB Consortium wasn't invited to come breathe down their necks reminding them about things like that.)

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, that's what I'd call a mess. The purpose of a standard should be that if a product conforms to it, the consumer can trust that the product will work. That isn't the case with USB-C. I've had some "USB-C" cables that can charge but not transmit video, some that can transmit video but not charge, and some that can do both. It shouldn't be possible to sell a cable that can't do both and call it USB-C.

Is USB-C a form factor, a standard, or both?

It's a connector that can be used for multiple USB standards and non-standard protocols.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#390
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo’s Switch plug happens to physically and electrically seem to accept USB-C charger connectors, but it’s not a USB-C plug, and the Switch should not be considered compatible just because it uses a similar plug. Nintendo should have taken more steps with their charger to restrict the Switch to authorized chargers only, rather than permitting unsupported chargers (such as standard USB-C ones) from being able to…

All (or most) of the reports of switches being bricked stem for 3rd party docks, where the dock is at fault and using 9v for signal pins, see https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c-of-ninte...

I bricked a switch using my macbook charger. It's poor design in the switch to accept a USB cable that can potentially zap the device.
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