USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess • Hacker News Board

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#91

Post by netcan » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

Douglas Adams on Dongly Things: http://douglasadams.com/dna/980707-03-a.html

Spolsky on Martian headsets: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/03/17/martian-headsets/

It turns out that making power/data cables work without irritating the hell out humanity as a whole is a task that humans are uniquely unsuited to solving. We'll have to wait for AI or aliens to fix this.

Meanwhile, stop expecting the next standard to work as a standard. Buy a nice little bag for housing your cables, dongles, adapters and such. Keep it stocked. Remember to throw out defunct ones biannually.

The problem is not going away.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#92

Post by sq_ » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

mnky9800n wrote: post #70

sq_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree with you on how convenient USB-C can make things. Being able to carry one 60-90w brick with multiple USB-C PD outputs and charge pretty much all of my devices off of it is amazing. On the other hand, I would say that all of us here on HN probably aren't the target audience for this article. Collectively, I'd say HN readers are likely to understand that different USB-C bricks, cables, and devices are going…

But I think this is a problem when the elkjøp guy gave my wife the wrong usb-c cable for charging her phone.

Part of me thinks we're just in a very long, drawn-out adoption process for all of this.

Things seem to have gotten much better since the first USB-C only Macbooks and other devices started to arrive, so my hope is that we'll reach a point within another few years where one can pretty confidently purchase a cable or charger and assume it'll work with a standard device. It certainly does suck for now that you can end up with the wrong thing if you don't do a ton of compatibility checking.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#93

Post by beckler » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

I really like interoperability and ubiquity of USB-C, but I think the part that I find frustrating is that the actual cables themselves are not standardized around data transfer rates.

I recently bought a small USB-C hub that allowed you to connect to it with your own cable, and it has an HDMI port. I also decided to buy a longer, but cheaper USB-C cable to connect it to my machine, thinking it would work. Well the HDMI port wouldn't work at all. Everything else was fine. I actually ordered a replacement because I thought the hub was defective.

Come to find out, it will only work with USB-C cables with e-marker that allows a higher data rate. This info wasn't clearly stated anywhere, it was only listed deep in a support post. So that was a fun discovery...

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#94

Post by himlion » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #43

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Micro-USB was better. Especially since there are still so many existing devices that used micro-USB ports.

No, those cables are not durable at all. Cheap or expensive, they don't last more than a few months with heavy use.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#95

Post by qppo » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #13

So all issues with USB-C boil down to - Apple made some different standard that uses the same Plug - Power supplies come at different power ratings (who would have thought!) Of course this is not ideal, but it is already better than not being able to get _any_ 3rd part power supply at all.

I don't know about the power rating thing so much. USB-PD is a lot more complicated than having a dumb brick with a rectifier and regulator. And while I trust my cohort of wall warts not to burn my house down, I spend way more on 3rd party USB C bricks because I have no faith in anything I buy on Amazon.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#96

Post by newsclues » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

martin_a wrote: post #44

amelius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until you have to write an embedded driver for it.

Ah yeah, who doesn't do this everyday? I've written like... five of these today alone... Honestly, you'll find those "for me it's SUPER stressful"-cases everywhere, but it will not touch 99.99% of the other people.

If it’s very difficult for developers to do a good job, the likelihood you encounter bugs as a user increases.

Even if you don’t write drivers, doesn’t mean you can’t suffer from difficult to implement standards.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#97

Post by jeremymcanally » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #19

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Did you not read the article? Because your response doesn’t address any of the issues brought up in the article. Mainly that all the usb-c cables you sprinkle across your house might not have the same functionality. And if you plug your switch in to one it might charge it, while another will not.

I did read it, and for my use cases, I don't have issues. I understand others' use cases may not match mine, but this situation seems basically like any other connectivity standard in the history of technology. Except this time, the universality for what most people use it for has actually managed to catch on. :)

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#98

Post by josho » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #37

It's honestly such a complete joke it's not even funny anymore. My USB-C MacBook Pro with it's pathetic two ports that my work bought for me is now old enough that the battery is starting to fail and we're still in a world where this single cable for power, screen and ports just doesn't seem to really exist. I'm starting to be convinced the port is fundamentally flawed, dongles with multiple ports are never reliable…

A good (read expensive) dongle will work fine. I have one that reliably powers 2 monitors (a 5k and a 4k), 1gb network and powers my macbook.

I think the real problem is we get a lot of cheap products coming from China with very little quality control. QC is poor because they have no incentive to build in quality. E.g. you likely don't realize how flaky the dongle is until after the 30 day return policy, the branding on many of these plugs is minimal so you don't even know which company to avoid for your next purchase.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#99

Post by CubsFan1060 » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

baconandeggs wrote: post #26

atoav wrote: post #13

So all issues with USB-C boil down to - Apple made some different standard that uses the same Plug - Power supplies come at different power ratings (who would have thought!) Of course this is not ideal, but it is already better than not being able to get _any_ 3rd part power supply at all.

Those are not all the issues. For example, you can't get a usb-c hub to get more usb-c ports, they don't exist.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. That mystifies me.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#100

Post by lstamour » Thu, Oct 01, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #34

vr46 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. All my apple kit works fine off t…

> Aha - you may find that your Switch CANNOT in fact share a charge - Nintendo's port is not necessarily safe to use with anything but its supplied charger. And I've just learned this lesson with a $60 bill from Nintendo repair after the port went pop and couldn't charge the device. I only have reputable chargers in the house from Apple and one from Anker aside from the Nintendo's own. It has worked reliably with pre…

Actually it isn’t but I’m not finding the article I’d previously read on the topic.

Personally I think it comes down to both the charging profiles the switch will accept are limited, such that some chargers don’t work with the switch - each USB PD charger supports a different set of charging specs (volts/amps/watts). https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/ch99aj/apple_...

I’d also suggest that some PD bricks/chargers might not be as reliable at sending power, if so, or if a cable’s wiring sends it down the wrong path, it could be disastrous for many devices that don’t take this into account. I am reminded of reviews of USB-C cables from a few years ago from Benson Leung.