Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake • Hacker News Board

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#431

Post by qubitcoder » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

fjp wrote: post #357

fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

I'm in the same boat as you. I wish my company had issued me the model without the touchbar, as I very much would prefer physical function and esc keys but other than that I love the machine and have never had issues. The one thing I would change is that I seem to have to reach way over to the right side of the trackpad to get a "right-click". I also have a ~2016 macbook air and the keyboard SUCKS in comparison to th…

You should be able to right-click anywhere on the trackpad with a two finger tap.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#432

Post by bitwize » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #396

dathinab wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly any Laptop you pay 1200+ on should "survive"(1) you _splashing_ Coffee on it, not just a view drops of liquid. It's totally technical doable in a number of ways and the only thing in its way is because you are fanatic about getting your laptop another mm thinner and/or profit margins. (1): Survive in the sense that it's in general fine and you at most have to replace some easy to replace not super expensive…

Apple has little motivation to fix durability issues. They've always been willing to prioritize elegance and form over durability anyway. This is a fine Italian motorcycle, not a Russian dirtbike, of course it has less tolerance for the user "using it wrong". Sure it would be nice if they made them more durable but that's just not the kind of product they are interested in making and it's working out well for them th…

> This is a fine Italian motorcycle, not a Russian dirtbike

It's supposed to be German. It's supposed to look good and last forever.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#433

Post by dfee » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:26 PM UTC

kcommam wrote: post #406

fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

I feel the exact same way and have always recommended Macs to friends, family and cwoorkers as the computere that "just works." I'm been suspicious of people who disagree with that sentiment — to each their own, but I don't think there's much dispuute that Macs just work. Yet, now, heere I am with a 2018 MacBooko Pro that repeats keys randomly — somoetimes out of theorder they were pushed— andstarting to wonder if I…

I finally took my 2018 MBP in and they replaced the upper case (I guess keyboard, touchbar, and more?) to fix the keyboard issue.

The work took about 2 days (drop-off, return). But I ended up buying a keyboard cover for it because the risk of particulate putting me in this situation again - and the consequences of that occurring - are of greater cost than the annoyance of a plastic film over the keyboard.

I recommend you take it in and do the same.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#434

Post by dsfyu404ed » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:26 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #429

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has little motivation to fix durability issues. They've always been willing to prioritize elegance and form over durability anyway. This is a fine Italian motorcycle, not a Russian dirtbike, of course it has less tolerance for the user "using it wrong". Sure it would be nice if they made them more durable but that's just not the kind of product they are interested in making and it's working out well for them th…

> "These are fine Swiss rifles, not AKs." "Fine swiss rifles" are known for being expensive to manufacture, not for being fragile. Incidentally, why can I buy a fine Swiss watch that works 500 feet under the ocean, but not a fine "Swiss"(Cupertino) laptop that can withstand a few drops of tap water?

I changed my metaphor to be more appropriate.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#435

Post by MrScruff » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

Also totally happy with my 2016 MBP, keyboard and all.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#436

Post by darkpuma » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

AareyBaba wrote: post #418

cmiles74 wrote: post #324

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

I have ruined several keyboards (3 Apple, 1 HP) by accidentally spilling water/coffee on them. What I don't understand is how do these devices get completely destroyed by small amounts of liquid. I've disassembled these keyboards, cleaned and dried them out to no avail. Is something getting shorted out permanently ? Is some sensor getting ruined ? what exactly is happening and is there nothing that can be done to rev…

Corrosion is almost always to blame. Corrosion damage can often be repaired with some microsoldering work.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#437

Post by npongratz » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

camelNotation wrote: post #410

cmiles74 wrote: post #324

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

Not only are Thinkpad keyboards the most comfortable and satisfying on the market, you can literally pour water on them and it will drain out the bottom of the laptop without ever touching internal components. After using my Thinkpad for about six months, I can't go back. The keyboard is amazing, build quality is rock solid, screen is 4k with 100% RGB, and you can actually upgrade the thing. I buy a laptop because I…

I want to like Thinkpads for their hardware quality, but I cannot get over Lenovo stuffing malware into their systems, even after they got caught. How can I be put at ease?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#438

Post by Kaze404 » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

darrmit wrote: post #117

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

> a.) tune and configure it to work and have decent battery life with whatever hardware I choose

Literally all you have to do is install powertop.

> b.) troubleshoot it when it randomly decides to break itself on update.

I've been running Linux desktop for almost 2 years now and I've never had that happen. Unlike when I used Windows, where a W10 update would be forced into my system and either change functionality or fundamentally break something.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#439

Post by geerlingguy » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #428

fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

Naa you’re not alone. I love the new MBP keyboard. My experience to suggests what we have here is a vocal minority. I type faster with the new style keyboard, I enjoy the springiness of the keys and their much larger size than previous iterations. I also like how their backlighting works compared to the old style. If people are having trouble with them, Apple should resolve those issues, but in my opinion the keyboar…

I love the feel, but in my 2016 I did have the spacebar stop working on one side (the side I tend to use more often) because of dirt ingress.

My favorite keyboard ever, though, is the current 'Magic Keyboard'. It's like the perfect medium between the old chicklet-style that felt rather mushy to me and the new butterfly mechanism that's almost too rigid.

Sadly, it seems Apple does not want to go back to that feel in their mobile line :(

The grip I have with the newer Pros is the *@($ Touch Bar. It's sad that the new Air has exactly what I wanted—addition of Touch ID but no Touch Bar—but the so-called Pros still have the Touch Bar. I have yet to find a touch typist who believes the Touch Bar to be a good reason to pay a few hundred extra for it.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#440

Post by thegayngler » Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

I guess Im just an outlier as I love the butterfly keyboard. It is certainly my favorite thing about the new macs. I still have my 2016 Mac and it is in prime condition. I am a light touch typer. Therefore I dislike having to mash my fingers down into the keys to register the click.