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The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

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Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#431

Post by grayclhn »

littletimmy wrote: post #376
the_af wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why do cheaters "deserve to be outed?". I realize you'd be enraged if someone cheated on you. So would I. But what does it matter to you what other people do with their private lives? Do you think people struggling with alcoholism also deserve to be outed and publicly humiliated?

No one is wronged in the case of alcoholism. People are wronged in the case of cheating. I don't see why cheaters should not be outed.

We're getting think into the weeds, but I'll just share a different perspective. As a father of 3, I would much rather my spouse be a cheater than an alcoholic.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#432

Post by rhino369 »

astrashe wrote: post #228
yummybear wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in here (I assume) think Snowden's leaks were ethic, though illegal. The reaction to The Fappening was likewise equal parts glee and disgust. Almost nobody would blink an eye at revealing a doxxing dump from a terrorist sympathizer or CP forum. Ethics are a subjective thing, and lines are hard to place.

If Snowden had just taken the documents and posted them online without any filtering, it would have been extremely unethical. It would have gotten people killed. But that's not what he did -- he enlisted reputable journalists to process the documents and make decisions about what was safe to release and what wasn't. Let's say the hackers in this situation wanted to prove that Avid Life Media was acting unethically --…

>he enlisted reputable journalists to process the documents and make decisions about what was safe to release and what wasn't.

That's really only the bare minimum. He also exposed a bunch of obviously legal programs that just made the US look bad to allies or outted intelligence programs designed to attack future potential enemies. He did this because he believed those actions were morally wrong.

I don't see how that is different from outting cheaters on a website. Both are punishing people for violations of your moral code.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#433

Post by shawn-furyan »

illyism wrote: post #196
bagels wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to know this too. I remember seeing a talk by Facebook on Youtube by their security team that they will download these datasets to see if Facebook users have used the same passwords so that they can protect accounts. It would be unfortunate if this was less than legal.

How is Facebook able to do this if the passwords are hashed in a different manner? Are they storing passwords in plain text?

You don't need to cross-reference the passwords. Matching email addresses are sufficient to warn the user. The user should be able to verify whether or not the two accounts use the same password.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#434

Post by the_af »

moosey wrote: post #414
the_af wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the... How can you conflate rape with infidelity ? They are completely unrelated things! Rape is definitely a crime and an act of violence worthy of moral outrage. If you are forcing someone to have nonconsensual sex, that's terrible and totally unrelated to cheating. And you can have forced nonconsensual sex within a marriage. Seriously, rape is a completely different issue. Exposing people to STDs is a problem…

I'm not defending this position, so please don't pull out pitchforks or anything, just making an argument where this could be expanded into rape charges somewhere: There are countries where having sex under false pretext is considered rape. For instance: saying that you are going to use a condom then removing it without the knowledge of your partner would be rape. One could argue that being in a marriage with the pro…

I hear what you're saying and I'm not pulling out any pitchforks, don't worry.

Having said that,

> For instance: saying that you are going to use a condom then removing it without the knowledge of your partner would be rape.

In which country is that rape? I think pretending to use a condom and secretly removing it is morally deplorable, and the mark of a terrible person, but it's insulting to actual rape victims to consider it rape.

> One could argue that being in a marriage with the promise of monogamy, but failing to keep that promise, would mean that all instances of sex with your partner are then rape

I can't think of any universe where this makes sense. It's an act of dishonesty, and a pretty serious one depending on your upbringing and personal convictions, but rape? Sorry, that sounds seriously fucked up to me. I wouldn't want to live in a place where being unfaithful is equated to being a rapist.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#435

Post by FireBeyond »

tbirdz wrote: post #295
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty close to the same as Donald Sterling's opinion on black people, and outed gay Republicans who voted against gay equality. Even if the outing was unethical, you can't un-pull the trigger on this being public knowledge, and people become responsible for their own shitty behavior that previously was concealed. Sucks to be them. And marital infidelity is unethical even if it isn't illegal. It's pretty FUCK…

>marital infidelity is unethical even if it isn't illegal Marital infidelity is illegal in 21 states in the US, and many other countries as well. For many individuals this is not just an ethical concern, but a legal one as well.

Furthermore, mentioning homosexuality made me think. In 2003, Lawrence vs Texas, the Supreme Court ruled that "sexual activity between consenting adults is legal", and that attempts to make it not so were unconstitutional. That's been held up in the case of homosexuality, but (perhaps because in most states it is already not prosecuted much and a misdemeanor) it's never been tested.

So yes. It's illegal. In some states. Has largely been determined to be unconstitutional, your handwaving of "these people broke the law, they get no sympathy" notwithstanding.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#436

Post by peejaybee »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #420
peejaybee wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say that the star-bellied Sneetches are rounding up the plain-bellied Sneetches and sending them to -- well, you're not exactly sure where they're sending them, but none of them have ever come back. Needless to say, the plain-bellied Sneetches don't think much of being rounded up, so they hide. A few star-bellied Sneetches sympathize with the plight of the plain-bellied Sneetches, and help them hide. Your neigh…

>It's the fault of those damn star-bellied Sneetches. Is it any less their fault if they find out via the National Sneetch Agency than if you tell them? I wouldn't think so. So is it any your fault? Is blame like a pie such that if someone has 100% of it, everyone else must have 0%? Or is it limitless, where two people can be 100% to blame? As you said, if we do think snitches are to blame, it does leave Snowden and…

Oh, the star-bellied Sneetches bear blame, all right. How they found out about the plain-bellies doesn't change that.

What does change is who else might be responsible, and who among them bears blame. Your neighbor is responsible, but not to blame -- she intended to help the plain-bellies hide, but made a mistake. You would bear both responsibility and blame, as your disclosures led to the plain-bellies being whisked away, you can be expected to have know that would be the likely result, and you didn't have a good reason to do it anyway.

Snowden and Manning would also bear responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Blame? I don't know. I tend to doubt it. Even though they should have expected that there would be bad fallout, I do believe they had a good reason to move ahead.

Impact Team? I'm not sure what justifies putting a man in jeopardy of his life, but personally, I (edit: do not) think that outing millions of (by-and-large unsuccessful) adulterers rises to the occasion.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#437

Post by the_af »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #425
moosey wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defending this position, so please don't pull out pitchforks or anything, just making an argument where this could be expanded into rape charges somewhere: There are countries where having sex under false pretext is considered rape. For instance: saying that you are going to use a condom then removing it without the knowledge of your partner would be rape. One could argue that being in a marriage with the pro…

>There are countries where having sex under false pretext is considered rape. Exactly. And I'm not saying that is right or wrong. That is why I said 'possibly', because it depends upon if you agree with such a definition or not and if the legal jurisdiction you live in operates with such a definition or not.

In exactly which countries is having sex with someone under the false pretense you're being faithful the same as rape? Note: not simply illegal or punishable by law, but actual rape. Otherwise I think this point is moot.

If there are such countries, I wouldn't want to live there.

PS: if we're talking about countries where adulterous women can be stoned to death, I think we can all agree that is horrible and the public shaming of Ashley Madison customers completely pales next to the crime against humanity that is mutilating or murdering people for being unfaithful or gay. I'd consider those countries completely beyond the scope of this discussion.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#438

Post by geofft »

venomsnake wrote: post #73
yeukhon wrote: post #25

This is my first time to learn about Ashley Madison. The business model actually disgusts me. I get the whole open relationship, but people who are actually married or in a committed relationship are using this site is just ridiculous. Either you break off with your current relationship, or stay loyal. BTW, those "secure" logo are just so useless I see them as sign of weakness rather than confidence. Anyone can place…

That line of thinking is nice when you are teen. But then the real world comes and people usually find that real life is more nuanced and complicated. Lets start with - sex acts your SO just won't do, but you like them. A lot.

You like them more than your marriage vow?

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#439

Post by shawn-furyan »

eljimmy wrote: post #349
makecheck wrote: post #318

One of the unfortunate outcomes I expect from this is immediate retribution against the "owners" of faked accounts. Not only can convincing web site accounts be created easily but E-mails that "prove" ownership can also be faked. There is a side of modern society that does not have either the patience or sense of fairness to verify something before acting on it. Put another way, what do you think would happen to you…

The leak contains credit card transactions associated with the cardholder's name. Could those be faked? I suppose. You have a 1/9999 chance of guessing the right 4 digits of someone's credit card.

Or, assuming you are acquainted with the person you dislike, you could go out to lunch with them, and offer to split the bill...
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