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Free software scares normal people

danieldelaney.net

421–430 of 641 posts

Re: Free software scares normal people

#421
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The portion you've overlooked is there is an entire population of users out there who have never seen, nor used, a command line, and telling them to "just type this out" ignores all the background command line knowledge necessary to successfully "just type this out": 1) They have to know how to get to a command line somewhere/how (most of this group of users would be stymied right here and get no further along); 2) T…

Well, you're cheating a bit here. You're basically assuming the user has never seen a text prompt before. Which is a good assumption. But, if we assume the user has never seen a graphical application before, then likely all GUI tools will be useless too. What is clicking? What does this X do? What's a desktop again? I don't understand, why do I need 1 million pixels to change an mp3 to an avi? What does that window l…

The difference is a lot of "computer education" (as opposed to computing education most in this forum have) has happened with GUIs. "Simple" CLI tools doesn't mean they're understandable or even user-friendly.

Heck, even computing education (and the profession even!) has been propped up by GUIs. After my first year in CS, there were like only three to five of us in a section of forty to fifty who could compile Java from the command line, who would dare edit PATH variables. I'm pretty sure that number didn't improve by much when we graduated. A lot of professionals wouldn't touch a CLI either. I'm not saying they are bad programmers but fact of the matter is there are competent professional programmers who pretty much just expect a working machine handed to them by IT and then expect DevOps to fix Jenkins when it's borked out.

Remember: HN isn't all programmers. There are more out there.

> But, if we assume the user has never seen a graphical application before, then likely all GUI tools will be useless too.

We don't even need to assume, we just need to look at history. GUIs came with a huge amount of educational campaigning behind it, be it corporate (i.e., ads/training programs that teach users how to use their products) or even government campaigns (i.e., computer literacy classes, computer curriculum integrated at school). That's of course followed by man-years upon man-years of usability studies and the bigger vendors keeping consistent GUI metaphors across their products.

Before all of this, users did ask the questions that you enumerated and certain demographics still do to this day.

> Of all of that, CLI tools rely on some of the least amount of assumptions by their nature - they're low fidelity, forced to be simple.

"Everything should be made simple, but not simpler." Has it occurred to you that maybe CLI tools assume too little?

Re: Free software scares normal people

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an entire desktop environment, its not as simple as choosing between two different apps. Although people who make this complaint should probably just use KDE, maybe they've used Gnome for a long time and don't want to change.

> maybe they've used Gnome for a long time and don't want to change. By using GNOME and staying with it as it changed, they suffered more changes than they would have by switching to KDE at any point.

Yes, they've been slowly boiled alive and that is why they are so salty and resentful about it.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#423
post #415

For me, it's the fact that I'm running code written by some random people. The code could be malicious. I don't know unless I audit it myself and I have no time for that. Remember the XZ Utils backdoor thing from a few months ago? Well how many backdoors are there in other FOSS stuff?

How is that specific to FOSS?

It's one of the main features, just incoherently rambled and backwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition#T...

> The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

Free software can be audited for backdoors. Closed can not. Their backdoors will stay there indefinitely.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#425
post #38

The better example for this design principle is the big green button on copy machines. The copier has many functions, but 99% of users don't bother with 99% of them. For a little history on this design, see https://athinkingperson.com/2010/06/02/where-the-big-green-c...

That's a good button on a copier or a microwave. Not on a CNC mill, CAD software, text editor, chemical plant, tractor, knife... basically any object in the world that doesn't have one obvious function.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#426
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omarchy tries resolving this https://github.com/basecamp/omarchy

Dear reader, please make sure you look up whose project this is and why it's spammed everywhere.

Duckduckgo led me to this wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Heinemeier_Hansson>. I can see why software by the creator of Ruby on Rails gets widely shared. Pretty good 24HLM results too.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#427
post #424

Then we have to wait until 'normal' software becomes more scary. Various vendors are doing everything in their power to make it so.

i think it's not about having more features but having to set and understand certain features and unless you do, the app doesn't work. like Handbrake

Re: Free software scares normal people

#428
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that, as has always been, the pool of people willing to code for free on their own time because it's fun is just much larger than the people willing to make icons for software projects on their own time because they think it's fun.

Graphic designers and artists get ripped off, all the time ; frequently, by nerds, who tend to do so, in a manner that insults the value of the artist's work. It's difficult to get those kinds of creatives to donate their time (trust me on this, I'm always trying). I'm an ex-artist, and I'm a nerd. I can definitively say that creating good designs, is at least as difficult as creating good software, but seldom makes…

Just for the record: as a developer, I have done a ton of free software contributions. I pretty much didn't get anything from it, except people complaining or asking me to do even more for them, for free.

I don't know if that qualifies as "getting ripped off", but it's not exactly paying me either.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Gnome tells people that they should just know keyboard shortcuts for everything - which is literally something only power users know to do. Their entire design ethos is a weird opposition to itself where it is aiming to be so simple and minimal that in order to do basic things you have to memorize keyboard shortcuts as there is no visual interface possibility to do those things.

Where do they tell to use keyboard shortcuts? I've been using Gnome 3 since it came out and I haven't encountered situations where I could do things with keyboard I couldn't do easily with mouse.

They did in a few places about thirty versions ago.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#430
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that specific to FOSS?

It's one of the main features, just incoherently rambled and backwards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition#T... > The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. Free software can be audited for backdoors. Closed can not. Their backdoors will stay there indefinitely.

disassembler and decompilers exist.
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