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Free software scares normal people

danieldelaney.net

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Re: Free software scares normal people

#411

Post by TeMPOraL »

KronisLV wrote: post #405

> It’s a bit like obscuring the less-used functions on a TV remote with tape. The functions still exist if you need them, but you’re not required to contend with them just to turn the TV on. For telling software devs to embrace traditional design wisdom, using TV remotes is an interesting example - cause aside from the commonly used functionality people actually care about (channels, volume, on/off, maybe subtitles/a…

I'd say it tells us that "good design" is stupid.

Remotes are fine. Except the modern ones that have a touchpad and, like, 8 buttons, four of which are ads.

People can handle many buttons just fine. Even one year old kids don't have a problem with this, which becomes apparent if you ever watch a small child play. The only people who have a problem here are UX designers high on paternalistic approach to users.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#412

Post by jampekka »

chartered_stack wrote: post #362

Like Alan Kay said about software: Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible. The thing is this takes a lot of resources to get right. FOSS developers simply don't have the wherewithal - money, inclination or taste - to do this. So, by default, there are no simple things. Everything's complex, everything needs training. And this is okay because the main users of FOSS software is others of a si…

For complex things there's CLI. For even more complex things there are programming languages.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#413

Post by TeMPOraL »

thyristan wrote: post #403
TeMPOraL wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the lesser problem. The bigger problem is the attitude of IT is wrong from the start. When they start doing something, they want to Do It Right. They want to automate the business process. But that's the wrong goal! You can spend years doing that and go all the way to building a homegrown SAP, and it will still suck and people will still use their half-assed Excel sheets and Access hacks. IT should not…

> They should focus on streamlining actual workflow of actual people. If you streamline a shitty process, you will have diarrhea... Unfortunately, most processes suck and need improvement. It isn't actually IT's job to improve processes. But almost always, IT is the only department that is able to change those processes nowadays since they are usually tied to some combination of lore, traditions, spreadsheets and mis…

That's precisely the mistake I'm talking about. You think you're smarter than people on the ground, and know better how they should do their job.

It's because of that condescending, know-it-all attitude that people actively avoid getting IT involved in anything, and prefer half-assed Excel hacks. And they're absolutely right.

Work with them and not over them, and you may get an opportunity to improve the process in ways that are actually useful. Those improvements aren't apparent until you're knee-deep in mud yourself, working hand by hand with the people you're trying to help.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#415

Post by mna_ »

For me, it's the fact that I'm running code written by some random people. The code could be malicious. I don't know unless I audit it myself and I have no time for that. Remember the XZ Utils backdoor thing from a few months ago? Well how many backdoors are there in other FOSS stuff?

Re: Free software scares normal people

#416

Post by GTP »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #336
makeitdouble wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> creating good interfaces (for people that aren’t developers.) This is the part where people get excited about AI. I personally think they're dead wrong on the process, but strongly empathize with that end goal. Giving people the power to make the interfaces they need is the most enduring solution to this issue. We had attempts like HyperCard or Delphi, or Access forms. We still get Excel forms, Google forms etc. Ha…

I have nightmare stories to tell of Access Forms from my time dealing with them in the 90's. The usual situation is that the business department hires someone with a modicum of talent or interest in tech, who then uses Access to build an application that automates or helps with some aspect of the department's work. They then leave (in a couple of cases these people were just interns) and the IT department is then cal…

> Spinning up a proper project to replace this application isn't feasible in the short term, because there are processes around creating software in the organisation, for very good reasons learned painfully from old mistakes, and there just isn't time to go through that.

I assume those processes weren't applied when deciding to use this application, why? Was there a loophole because it was done by an intern?

Re: Free software scares normal people

#417

Post by mbork_pl »

mna_ wrote: post #415

For me, it's the fact that I'm running code written by some random people. The code could be malicious. I don't know unless I audit it myself and I have no time for that. Remember the XZ Utils backdoor thing from a few months ago? Well how many backdoors are there in other FOSS stuff?

How is that specific to FOSS?

Re: Free software scares normal people

#418

Post by zeroc8 »

BobbyTables2 wrote: post #324
LtWorf wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall, the development world does not intuitively understand the difficulty of creating good interfaces Nor can the design world, for that matter. They think that making slightly darker gray text on gray background using a tiny font and leaving loads of empty space is peak design. Meanwhile my father cannot use most websites because of this.

What pisses me off is that the “brutalist” style in the 1990s was arguably perfect. Having standardized persistent menus, meaningful compact toolbars was nice. Then the world threw away the menus, adopted an idiotic “ribbon” that uses more screen real estate. Unsatisfied, we dumbed down desktop apps to look like mobile apps, even though input technology remains different. Websites also decided to avoid blue underline…

The brutalist style also meant that I didn't need a UI designer for my applications. With Delphi I was able to create great apps in a matter of days. And users loved them, because they were so snappy and well thought out. Nowadays it seems I need a UI designer to accomplish just about anything. And the resulting apps might look better but are worse when you are actually trying to accomplish work using them.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#419

Post by globular-toast »

gspencley wrote: post #98

A lot of this type of stuff boils down to what you're used to. My wife is not particularly tech savvy. She is a Linux user, however. When we started a new business, we needed certain applications that only run on Windows and since she would be at the brick and mortar location full time, I figured we could multi-purpose a new laptop for her and have her switch to Windows. She hated it and begged for us to get a dedica…

What you're used to is definitely a huge part of it. But I do think 10-15 years ago Linux was easier to break than Windows, because it didn't make any effort to hide away the bits that let you break it. This was mainly a matter of taste. People who know what they're doing don't want to use some sanitised sandbox.

Linux was like a racing car. Raw and refined. Every control was directly connected to powerful mechanical components, like a throttle, clutch and steering rack. It did exactly what you told it to do, but to be good at it requires learning to finesse the controls. If you failed, the lessons the were delivered swiftly and harshly: you would lose traction, spin and crash.

Windows was more like a daily driver. Things were "easier", but that the cost of having less raw control and power, like a clutch with a huge dual mass flywheel. It's not like you can't break a daily driver, any experienced computer guy has surely broken Windows more than once, but you can just do more within the confines o the sandbox. Linux required you to leave.

It's different now. Distros like Ubuntu do almost everything most people want without having to leave the sandbox. The beautiful part about Linux, though, is it's still all there if you want it and nice to use if you get there, because it's build and designed by people who actually do that stuff. Nowadays I tend to agree it is mostly just what you're used to and what you've already learnt.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#420

Post by a96 »

valyala wrote: post #231
psunavy03 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is precisely why desktop Linux has not knocked off Windows or MacOS.

Omarchy tries resolving this https://github.com/basecamp/omarchy

Dear reader, please make sure you look up whose project this is and why it's spammed everywhere.
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