iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#421

Post by peoplefromibiza » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:49 AM UTC

aikinai wrote: post #98

politician wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s not even how the industry started Which industry? The very earliest computers ran software written by end-users.

The computer industry. Computers were devices that came with predetermined hardware and software for a long time until unbundling took over and became the de facto standard.

for a long time meaning until they were not personal computers?

of course I can't install any other software on a CAT scanner, that's the equivalent of what computers were at the beginning, they were single purpose machines, but they could be programmed by the owners almost immediately after being invented.

The computer industry started with microcomputers in the 70s, by the mid of the decade they were cheap enough that individuals could own them and write software for them.

But starting from the 60s students had the chance of sitting at a computer station and programming them to do whatever they wanted them to do, according to their at the time limited possibilities.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#422

Post by wiseowise » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:51 AM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #419

wiseowise wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that amounts to 5-10%?

That's several million people.

Fortnite has that, it wasn't enough to threaten Google monopoly on Android.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#423

Post by zeta0134 » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:52 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #411

zeta0134 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full screen feature works fine on websites for me? Well mostly fine, it's rubbish for games in particular due to a user hostile feature that forbids rapid screen taps, insisting that you might be using an on screen keyboard and denying you the autonomy to tell Safari to please not. But ignoring that, the feature seems to exist. What am I missing?

Interesting. You say it works fine and then in the same breath you make a point to show it isn't and then choose to ignore it. What you're missing is that Safari shouldn't have that bit hard wired in.

(ah, the juxtaposition was the point. I'm bad at humor early in the morning)

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#424

Post by heavyset_go » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:52 AM UTC

zacksiri wrote: post #325

heavyset_go wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Thai government's Ministry of Digital Economy & Society has made multiple public requests for iOS users[1], mentioning that they need to avoid specific iOS apps[1][2], as well. That means scam apps were being distributed via the App Store. Also, the government mentions that the scams affect users of both platforms, because the scams propagate via calls, web links and emails that ask for personal information[2]. […

Right, but for Apple to take down those apps, it's much easier than taking down some random link the fraudsters put up. I'm not saying iOS is 100% bullet proof. I'm saying the problem is much more manageable without sideloading.

Google is able to use Play Protect in similar ways as Windows Defender, and the system can prevent malicious apps from installing or running based on signatures, profiling, certificates, etc. Just as iOS uses code signing and signatures to decide if an app was installed via the App Store, Android can do something similar, and more, to prevent malware from running.

> Right, but for Apple to take down those apps, it's much easier than taking down some random link the fraudsters put up.

Seems like the issue here is that the government has to tell iOS users not to install specific apps because Apple hasn't taken them down. I'm sure it's easy for Apple to do what it wants on the App Store, the issue is making them care. They have a history of letting multimillion dollar scams flourish on the App Store[1].

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/8/22272849/apple-app-store-s...

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#425

Post by ko27 » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:52 AM UTC

xenonite wrote: post #401

vivegi wrote: post #70

From the article > In addition, developers may have to pay extra if they want their apps to be available outside of the iOS App Store, Gurman says. The statement is a bit ambiguous. Is it pay Apple extra or pay extra to the 3rd party to have their app listed in the 3rd party app store? The former doesn't sound right; It is probably FUD. Logically, a 3rd party app store could compete on significantly reduced fees rela…

No, my interpretation is that Apple either increases their fees or decreases prices for an app that is also distributed elsewhere. I don't see a problem with that. If a producer grants exclusive distribution rights to a seller, the typical consequence is that the seller gives the producer a greater profit share in return. On ending those terms, the seller may rightfully reduce the profit share, in my opinion.

The problem is that EU law requires Apple to not restrict sideloading for selected apps. It doesn't matter if they pay or don't pay Apple. You have to be able to sideload them.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#426

Post by flohofwoe » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:54 AM UTC

Since this is an example of increasing individual freedom at the cost of corporate freedom, I wonder about the silence of US citizens about the whole topic. I always thought the 'land of the free' slogan is about individuals, not companies ;)

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#427

Post by solarkraft » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:55 AM UTC

> In addition, developers may have to pay extra if they want their apps to be available outside of the iOS App Store

If Apple gets a say in what I "sideload" (it's called installing), that's against the spirit of the law. Hopefully the EU lawmakers were competent enough to also make it against the text of the law. It would be outrageous.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#428

Post by heavyset_go » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:55 AM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #418

heavyset_go wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the case for billions of people on Android or macOS and their respective app stores.

How many people actually bother to set up another App Store though? A subset of Kindle users who want “real” google apps? I very much doubt it’s billions.

That's my point, Android can have more than one app store running yet people choose to use one primary app store. The nightmare scenario of having to run multiple app stores that the OP seems to be scared of is a non-issue on platforms with multiple app stores.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#429

Post by jeroenhd » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:55 AM UTC

wruza wrote: post #109

politician wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I’m afraid that with sideloading allowed, most software vendors will go sideloading-only. That means, nobody will have any control over their app’s privilege requests, behavior and other security related things. There is no reason why side-loading means "not sandboxed". Apps still need to use Apple SDKs to interface with the OS, so there is still an opportunity to request permissions and for the user to deny pe…

…and for an app to refuse to work without this irrelevant permission. This is my exact experience with an android phone and a quest of searching a ruler app. Ended up on lifehacker and a direct link to the app. Play store only suggested the most dark patterned apps in existence.

Random website downloads on Android are as reliable as random website downloads on desktop platforms. Most of them aren't malware, but Google's search is quickly turning into a malware distribution network rather than a search engine.

Here are two simple ruler apps you can reliably use: https://search.f-droid.org/?q=Ruler&lang=en

Here are a bunch more: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Ruler&rh=n%3A2350149011&crid=D5EU...

There are alternative app stores exactly for this reason. Nobody wants a future where you need to download random IPA files from the internet all the time, just having the ability to run F-Droid/Amazon App Store/Epic Games Mobile on your device is enough.

Honestly, I don't even get why Epic hasn't made an app store for Android yet. Mobile appsstores aren't exactly rocket science.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#430

Post by solarkraft » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 9:56 AM UTC

flohofwoe wrote: post #426

Since this is an example of increasing individual freedom at the cost of corporate freedom, I wonder about the silence of US citizens about the whole topic. I always thought the 'land of the free' slogan is about individuals, not companies ;)

(american voice)

You're free to buy another product!