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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#421

Post by sudosysgen »

dlp211 wrote: post #370
sudosysgen wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free market doesn't mean that actors can do whatever they want. It means that the market has the power to allocate resources. In the labor market, the labor market allocated that employee to a job, and allocated a penalty to changing jobs, that the government in then changing. Also, even in the labor market, the scenario you're describing is punishing the labor buyer but rewarding the labor provider, so it's not just…

Free markets are not about just the power to allocate, but also transparent knowledge in a decision. The labor purchaser almost always has an advantage over the labor provider in their transaction and don't actually represent a free market. Even in the tech industry this is true. People were shocked the other day when they found out that their income data was being reported and sold by the big credit companies in Ame…

Free markets are supposed to transmit information as prices. Access to information has nothing to do with a market being free or not, and the fact that participants with an information advantage have an advantage is a big part of why people think markets should be free.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#422

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

kansface wrote: post #352
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this idea of "punching down" and "punching up". I'm fairly sure that in 2012, Obama mocking Donald Trump was generally considered closer to "punching up" than "punching down" (whether that was really accurate depends a lot on the true state of Trump's financial affairs, but in general he projected a persona that involved being uber-wealthy, uber-famous and generally able to do whatever he wanted). By contrast…

How about we just not punch people in any direction?

I think that it is extremely important that our leaders, and to some extent even our idols, should be subject to satire and perhaps even mockery on occasion. That's what "punching" means in the context we're talking about.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#423

Post by daveevad »

oramit wrote: post #383
daveevad wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fish rots from the head. Trump was elected in 2016 and he's an asshole. His whole schtick is to mock his opponents and never admit he was wrong. Obama roasting Trump at the White House Correspondents likely contributed to his decision to run for President. I agree your points by the way, I just think the fire started prior to 2016.

Another comment somewhere else in this thread mentioned 2008 and the bailouts for banks, bankruptcy for the public, as the place we should look at. With big society wide trends like this it's impossible to have a clear cause and effect. It's all a muddle which is why I've listed a few different ideas all of which contribute in their own way. Covid is such a unique situation though and I think it will serve as a clear…

I'm probably being naive but the assassination of JFK is the most interesting alternative history moment for me.

Should he have finished his term and steered the US clear of Vietnam (I know very debatable) and seen man go to the "moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard," I think things would have gone much better.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#424

Post by cxr »

beerandt wrote: post #391
vinceguidry wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love HN entitlement. It's not just the waitress. It's also the kitchen staff, which has to fulfill the orders. Low-cost special menus like brunch menus make their money on volume. At least half the food service equation relies on the kitchen to whip the orders out in time. Special requests slow the entire kitchen down. Not a problem if, say, there's not a huge rush. But a huge problem if the staff is slammed. M…

All factors baked into the managers decision to accept special orders. This is just the server disagreeing with both the boss and customer, and then wondering why they might be having a problem with a satisfaction based compensation system.

I agreed with your earlier comment and was disappointed to see it in the grey, but both your follow-ups have been lacking, esp. on staff having a problem with something that the management doesn't voice a problem with.

You're ignoring circumstances where the boss okays the thing but doesn't adjust their perspective and still holds the staff to the same expectations—to deliver as if under the same parameters, when the parameters have obviously changed.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#425

Post by mcv »

l8rpeace wrote: post #386
mcv wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He addresses the low wages right at the start. He also addresses shitty customer behaviour and shitty employer demands. And yes, he also touches on tipping. I think the article is pretty well-rounded.

You are right and thank you for pointing that out. He hits these areas but, in my reading, fails to fully close the loop. I feel that policy supported wage floors for tipping isn't addressed enough, if at all. Sure, they tried to get rid of tipping, but tipping here is only a problem when a former policy maker says, "tip because the policy supports it." I don't agree that policy should be reliant on goodwill but rath…

I don't think he's proposing policies at all; he's observing the problem, and explaining the problem for people who are unwilling to believe poor people. That serves an important purpose. There are plenty of other articles addressing policies.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#426

Post by mcv »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #410
mcv wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be truly effective, UBI needs to be directly linked to the basic costs of living, like food and rent. If those go up, so should UBI. Or as long as there is no UBI, minimum wage should follow those costs.

Either if those scenarios just create an inflationary spiral.

Not at all. It's a popular claim, but there are many factors for inflation, and money in the hands of the poor is hardly the most important one. Countries with extreme poverty still have inflation. Countries with little poverty can have low inflation.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#427

Post by ajmurmann »

orwin wrote: post #162
ajmurmann wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this Reddit comment from a use called TheMagecite on parenting during the pandemic might get to some of it: "No. So lets take my example I have two children one has autism. What my son desperately needs is social interaction, how do you teach social interaction well without peers? He can't see other children and right now he has such limited exposure to other children he is about to start school and it is a n…

For context, which country do you live in?

I only posted the quote and live in the US. Looking are the Reddit history of the author, I think they likely live in Sidney, Australia.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#428

Post by cxr »

vorpalhex wrote: post #395
stainforth wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divert the securities to the front line labor then instead of the upper few.

Do the front line labor want securities instead of cash? You'd end up having to do something like a co-op model. However, if you want employees to earn their payout even if they leave before that five year payout then they couldn't sell back co-op ownership. That means the co-op ownership continually gets diluted, or you run out of cap table to be able to hire more. This scheme also means the first, eg fry cook, woul…

> Do the front line labor want securities instead of cash?

I didn't see anyone say "instead of".

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#429

Post by daveevad »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #329
daveevad wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fish rots from the head. Trump was elected in 2016 and he's an asshole. His whole schtick is to mock his opponents and never admit he was wrong. Obama roasting Trump at the White House Correspondents likely contributed to his decision to run for President. I agree your points by the way, I just think the fire started prior to 2016.

There's this idea of "punching down" and "punching up". I'm fairly sure that in 2012, Obama mocking Donald Trump was generally considered closer to "punching up" than "punching down" (whether that was really accurate depends a lot on the true state of Trump's financial affairs, but in general he projected a persona that involved being uber-wealthy, uber-famous and generally able to do whatever he wanted). By contrast…

I'm having a hard time accepting that the President ever punches up. He's the most powerful person in the world and has the sole authority to authorize the use of U.S. nuclear weapons. The office enjoys the Bully Pulpit and it is valuable to have this arrangement in my opinion.

At any rate, watch the clip if you haven't recently.

https://youtu.be/n9mzJhvC-8E?t=574

It's pretty interesting actually, to me at least, that Obama roasts Biden pretty much just as well for his off-the-cuff remarks and age immediately after his digs at Trump, which are less derogatory than I had remembered.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#430

Post by mardifoufs »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #54
pitaj wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that servers and bartenders are the most adimant supporters of tipping. They make a killing.

Making a killing is pushing it unless you're working at a high end place. I really wonder how many HN people have ever worked in a waitstaff role. As much as you might hate it, tips keeps you just above minimum wage 95% of the time. Its not some money fountain like some people here seem to thing it is. People who want tips of course want it because it gives them money on top of minimum wage, why the hell would you ex…

What? I live in canada where tipping culture is not as present as in the US but still very widespread and it's universally known (at least before the lockdowns) that working in restaurants is pretty much the best job you can get as long as you don't work in the kitchen. I've had close friends work in a wide range of restaurants/hotels, and even those working in very normal restaurants still made way more than any other job they could get.

I like my student job since it's outdoors, and I have other revenue streams, but you don't get any tips. So my colleagues usually jump at the occasion to work in a restaurant whenever they can even if our workplace is extremely pleasant to work at.

They want to keep tips going because not because it allows them to barely reach the minimum but because it makes them way more money. Otherwise, they'd advocate for removing the different minimum wages.

I'm actually puzzled, and I'm wondering if you have ever worked in a waitstaff job because I've never ever met a waiter being against tips.

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