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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#351

Post by uoaei »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122
nepeckman wrote: post #87

It's a shame that the comments here are laser focused on the tipping parts of the article, and not the bigger picture items. The author outlines the struggles of getting service jobs filled in high CoL areas, the vicious cycle of turnover in these jobs, and all the commenters here want to discuss is the 2 paragraphs on tipping.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

Some people forgot what it's like to be punched in the mouth

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#352

Post by kansface »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #329
daveevad wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fish rots from the head. Trump was elected in 2016 and he's an asshole. His whole schtick is to mock his opponents and never admit he was wrong. Obama roasting Trump at the White House Correspondents likely contributed to his decision to run for President. I agree your points by the way, I just think the fire started prior to 2016.

There's this idea of "punching down" and "punching up". I'm fairly sure that in 2012, Obama mocking Donald Trump was generally considered closer to "punching up" than "punching down" (whether that was really accurate depends a lot on the true state of Trump's financial affairs, but in general he projected a persona that involved being uber-wealthy, uber-famous and generally able to do whatever he wanted). By contrast…

How about we just not punch people in any direction?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#353

Post by ethbr0 »

oneforty4 wrote: post #262
MattGaiser wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. Is it growing, or is it just unpleasant/impolite to state that a large segment of the population consists of jerks so we keep forgetting?

> Is it growing I'm not sure how to empirically measure incivility but it seems like it might be... There's certainly been an uptick in things from reckless driving to drinking to drug overdoses. There's a lot of anecdata from nurses, airline attendants, teachers, etc. about bad behavior being on the rise. Maybe it's all just due to the stress of the ongoing pandemic. But, some of the articles below point out that th…

Correlation is not causation, but we've been on a 50+ year crusade in American culture to destroy any sort of multi-economic-strata commons.

IMHO, the affluent suburbs in the article are both a symptom- and cause-of rudeness. Most of these kids have never worked a customer service job for minimum wage. It's possible even their parents haven't.

And that's not bad, per se, but if the problem is "People treat customer service workers like shit," then you could start at worse places than empathetic employment experience.

Personal vendetta, but Starbucks is emblematic of all that is wrong with American culture. We took the coffee shop -- a local, counter-culture, loitering-tolerant, independently-run staple of American life -- and replaced it with Walmart (+some feel-good PR).

And as a result, any unreasonable adult is catered to, because corporate policy is to make you feel special. When in reality, you should be banned from the premises after your second meltdown. /gripe

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#354

Post by stainforth »

vorpalhex wrote: post #291
mschuster91 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can raise the minimum but then you make everything more expensive Alternatively, the owner capitalist class could - gasp - take a cut in their already excessive profits . Shareholder, CEO, director and other executive pay has ballooned over the last decades, whereas worker wages (the ones that actually create the wealth with their labor) have at best stagnated.

Those ballooning wages are securities, not liquidity. You can't pay rent or buy food with options. Securities are speculative, no minimum wage worker wants a gamble on if they get paid 5 years in the future. Please keep the theatrics to a minimum. The goal is to have meaningful discussion, not attack your peers.

Divert the securities to the front line labor then instead of the upper few.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#355

Post by dlp211 »

lazide wrote: post #300
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where the overprotective nature of American parenting comes to bite you: your kid will be fine playing with other kids outside, why not… do it?

Because you’ll be constantly worried about getting Child Protective Services called on you if anything goes wrong or some random neighbor decides stranger danger is real.

While this does happen, this is not normal and CPS isn't going to do anything to a healthy family that let's their kids go out and play.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#356

Post by hanniabu »

acdha wrote: post #32
mschuster91 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the usual "high school jobs" are not a problem when done by actual high schoolers as side gig to fund phone, beer, weed and gas. They don't need to pay rent, food or health insurance so what would be a non-living wage for an adult is luxury money for high schoolers. The problem is when actual adults who have to take care of adult things (rent, food, health insurance, car payments, ...) have to re…

I knew multiple classmates who were working substantial hours because their families needed the extra income, and that was when wages were better than they are now. Anything close to real work should pay real wages because otherwise you’re screwing the most desperate at the expense of the more affluent kids who can afford to walk away.

> otherwise you’re screwing the most desperate at the expense of the more affluent kids who can afford to walk away

America in a nutshell

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#357

Post by mhb »

ipython wrote: post #112
mhb wrote: post #62

There's a line out the door and workers are quitting because of low pay and bad working conditions? It seems like a former labor secretary would, instead of blogging about a static situation, understand that this is a self-correcting problem. If you have demand that you can't satisfy, you raise your price.

He’s not in the position to do that though. He’s a bartender. It’s clear he is advocating for higher wages and better conditions and even notes that the management of the theater tried to do so but the national chain leadership shot them down.

The reason the essay is of any note is because the bartender used to be someone who you would expect to understand what labor is actually like. I would also be pleased if he understood economics, but maybe in the next essay the former labor secretary takes an econ class and is surprised at what he discovers.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#358

Post by rnk »

ajmurmann wrote: post #311
carapace wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happens, but it's orthogonal to the point you're replying to. In other words, Efficient markets and social safety nets are not intrinsically antagonistic or incompatible, we can have both. - - - - To me, the unspoken and often unconscious nature of the "stick" of vagrancy and homelessness is revealed clearly when people ask, "But who will pick up the garbage?" when you're talking about things like a "post-scarci…

100% agreed. My ideal is a largely free market (also free from control by large corps) with high, flat tax and high UBI. I think those things go really well together.

The flat tax is a huge imposition, punishment, etc for lower wage workers. If you are say a well paid engineer, a flat tax will benefit you. A billionaire benefits even more. Graduated tax rates with no deductions are a better solution.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#359

Post by ethbr0 »

uoaei wrote: post #351
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

Some people forgot what it's like to be punched in the mouth

Fighting words. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

Maybe the Supreme Court has been going the wrong way on its adjustment to them, in trying to clarify whether or not they were protected under the First Amendment.

Instead, they could have looked at liability shielding for limited assault in reaction to such language.

If there's a possibility that a server punches me because I berate him or her, I'm probably going to be on better behavior.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#360

Post by lazide »

dlp211 wrote: post #355
lazide wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you’ll be constantly worried about getting Child Protective Services called on you if anything goes wrong or some random neighbor decides stranger danger is real.

While this does happen, this is not normal and CPS isn't going to do anything to a healthy family that let's their kids go out and play.

I would hope not, but how realistic of a concern it is depends on your neighbors, the local CPS folks, and how well you’d come across to them at the time. It adds a lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

That near as I can tell no one lets a kid out alone is indicating how big a problem it really is. The most I’ve seen here is when they’re paired up and 12+, and here is one of the safest places in the county in a very child friendly place, literally 2 blocks from the police station - and the police here have some of the best reputations in the country.

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