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Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

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Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#411
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres pictures online confirming that it was an Iranian misfire that killed the school. Will you now redirect your outrage over innocent children to the incumbent Iranian government? Will you continue entering threads to signal your outrage to the world? Will you keep quiet, double down or practice the morals you claim to have?

While this is a minor point; whether or not it was an Iranian misfire doesn't move the moral responsibility away from the invaders. Unless the IRGC took advantage of the chaos to purposefully hit the school (seems unlikely) then the entire situation was teed up by the external aggression and can still pretty reasonably be blamed on them.

Of course it does.

If you try to shield your armed forces using children, and then accidentally kill them because you used them as a shield, you can't blame someone else.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s no guarantee, but it is a good opportunity. I’m half-Persian, and certainly not as closely connected as others, but it’s hard to see this as a bad thing. There’s a possibility I can go visit my family in Iran as a result of this. I haven’t had a good chance for that in like 4 years

The most likely situation is continuity. They just pick a new supreme leader. The second most likely situation is a civil war.

Unlikely, large proportion of population is brainwashed for 40 years. They will elect a "moderate" supreme leader, then business as usual.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#413
post #311

I wonder how old the rest of the commentators are. I watched the Shock and Awe campaign. I watched Saddam fall. I remember thinking this is great. Years later, I understand it was a complete folly. Removing Saddam in itself was good but what it did the wider region was not good.

I am old enough. Iraq is not perfect today but so much better than it was. Go talk to Iraqis and see for yourself. It costs us some time, money and lives to get to this point. But Saddam (a tyrant who killed his own kind in masses with gas and started wars with neighbors) staying in power would have been way worse for the wider region.

Iraq is a fantastic lesson to heed today.

In the first gulf war, Bush Sr. refused to occupy the country. He viewed it as too difficult and too expensive. In the second gulf war, Bush Jr. declared victory from the deck of an aircraft carrier, occupied the country, hunted and executed its leader, and then opened the U.S. treasury to deal with the aftermath. Thousands of Americans died. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's died. The occupation was long and difficult, but its end was still premature and left a power vacuum that ISIS raged into, causing even more destruction. Perhaps Iraqi's can say they're better off today than under Hussein, but a terrible cost was paid. Most of the blood was Iraqi, but most of the treasure was American.

The financial drain on the U.S. was extreme enough to expose the world's preeminent superpower as being unable to bring the occupation of a somewhat backwards and minor dictatorship to a successful conclusion. Iraq is not a big country, in either population or area, but it was still too much for the U.S. to control, even with willing allies. This failure made the world realize there were severe limits to what the U.S. can do. Sure, it might defeat the military of a middle or even major power, but occupy and control it? Fat chance!

In the days ahead, the U.S. military is going to bomb anything that moves and looks like it might shoot back, as well as a lot of infrastructure and probably a decent number of civilian targets by mistake (or design). Trump has framed this invasion as being directed towards eliminating Iran's nuclear program, so expect a lot of facilities in close proximity to civilians (and many of those civilians) to be vaporized.

If Trump is listening to his generals even slightly, he will not try to occupy the country. He'll declare victory and move on to whatever outrage is next to maintain his "Flood the zone" strategy and keep the Epstein heat from finally catching up with him. If that's all he does, this will be another war like Bush Sr.'s. Expensive, but not ruinously so. U.S. deaths will be in the hundreds and not the thousands. Iran will most likely fall into the hands of another mullah or descend into chaos, becoming a long-term security quagmire that will probably continue to bleed the U.S. for decades to come. Even if democracy does take root in Iran, it likely won't be a democracy that's friendly to the U.S..

If Trump isn't listening to his generals (who reportedly advised against the invasion to begin with), he might try to occupy Iran. Iran has double the population and four times the land area as Iraq. Unlike Bush Jr., Trump has not even tried to stitch together a coalition to share the costs. It's unlikely that many countries would be dumb enough to sign on now. There's no NATO article 5 pretext to drag in other NATO countries. There isn't even a falsified pretext like WMD's to quiet the howling in the UN. Israel isn't the kind of help the U.S. needs because the U.S. pays most of Israel's military bills to begin with. In short, if Iraq strained the U.S.'s finances close to the breaking point, Iran will ruin them completely. There's absolutely no way the U.S. can afford to occupy Iran.

Even if Trump cuts and runs, this war will ensure American's can't afford socialized medicine for another generation.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been a regime which has collapsed due to an external strike like this where it hasn't resulted in some decades long civil war nightmare? I can't think of any time when bombing the shit out of a country and killing their leader has actually worked. All I can think of is examples of blowback.

> I can't think of any time when bombing the shit out of a country and killing their leader has actually worked. Japan? Although their leader wasn't killed, but same logic. The more civilized a country is the easier it is to reform them into a good state, and Iran is a pretty civilized and structured nation, the dictatorship is the main issue. Most people in Iran want a democracy and are capable of running it, you ju…

From my understanding, it wasn't the bombing that motivated Japan to surrender even though this is commonly taught, it was the recent Soviet declaration of war and fear of invasion/occupation.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#416

The Iranian diaspora around the world is celebrating. Here's the scene in Berlin: https://youtu.be/NSbx_0mtk80?si=MJ_Bfvx8gVd1P1mm They've waited a very long time for this moment!

Do enjoy the moment while it lasts. Because the next ruler will be an American stooge. This isn't going anywhere, like the other "revolutions" in the middle east.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#417
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire continent of europe would be celebrating.

[flagged]

Overrun by muslims? Complete BS. I checked what he said, I don't see anything absurd, what are you talking about?

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#418

The Iranian diaspora around the world is celebrating. Here's the scene in Berlin: https://youtu.be/NSbx_0mtk80?si=MJ_Bfvx8gVd1P1mm They've waited a very long time for this moment!

Do enjoy the moment while it lasts. Because the next ruler will be an American stooge. This isn't going anywhere, like the other "revolutions" in the middle east.

At least a sane stooge.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#419
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't Trump bombarding the Kremlin? Isn't Putin a much larger threat to world peace than any leader of Iran? Also, it's never "morally okay" to kill anyone, ever; the fact that the US still has the death penalty shows how little they understand about morals and logic.

Because Russia has Nuclear Weapons dummy

Aaaah thanks, I didn't know that and my question wasn't rhetorical.

It's cool we have all those new users on HN who are helping us understand the world.

Re: Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is killed in Israeli strike, ending 36-year rule

#420

It was about time. I hope the opposition in Iran takes charge and gets into power before they find another religious leader.

One of the foundational principles of a stable government (though not the only one) is a monopoly on the use of force.

Unless the military and other armed groups back the civilians, whoever they end up backing will rule.

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