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Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

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Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#411

Post by pilate »

vlaaad wrote: post #329
bitcharmer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the number of Russians taking the easy way out by just fleeing or complaining about the evil west closing their Ikea stores this nation at the moment has zero capacity to take responsibility for their own government. I'm afraid it has to get much worse before it gets better. They still don't understand that as much as the government is responsible for its people, the people are also responsible for their g…

Why would I take responsibility for something I have zero influence over? He did just appear when Yeltsin said that he's leaving. He blatantly fakes elections: 146% support is a very telling result of one of these elections. It is a meme in Russia because when you can't do anything about it you can only laugh or cry. His 20 years on the throne are a constant stream of murders, poisoning and jailing of people who try…

Your prospects of a “normal life” are over. Whether you decide to do anything to improve it now is up to you.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#412

Post by foxfluff »

Glawen wrote: post #389
lowkey wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are conveniently skipping the part where millions of ordinary Russians are being economically devastated by broad brush sanctions that punish the poor and middle class Russians who are innocent of war crimes, simply because they were unfortunate to be born in the wrong country and they may justifiably be afraid for their lives if they protest. For those who say beat the war drums, punish them all, jus…

The sad truth is that Putin can only be removed from within Russia, by Russians. We cannot attack Russia without risking nuclear war, so imposing hardship to every russians is the best move we have. The guy is mad and made a bad strategic move by starting an unpopular war. This is the opportunity

The sadder truth may be that Russians might not be interested in removing Putin. Decades of propaganda, murdering of opposition, and authoritarian response to protests has grown a people that largely believes in their leader and is also afraid to openly oppose authority.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#413

Post by vertis »

skeletal88 wrote: post #102
daenz wrote: post #2

This may very well be true, but I'm having trouble believing anything, from anyone, about the conflict. There is so much propaganda around the subject, that unless you are personally connected to an official source, I believe you can't know with any reasonable certainty. The primary source for this story appears to be public Google Trends data.

I live in Estonia. If I see news reports where they interview people from the border guard who say that there are more border crossings than usual, owner of coach company says that they have added more trips to St. Petersburg and number of russians traveling has increased, also Russian-owned bus companies have added more trips to Estonia, where busses leaving here are alomst empty but packed full of travelers when le…

I had wondered how welcoming Estonia was being to Russians at the moment. I suggested a couple of Russians that are leaving reach out and ask, because Estonia is one of my favourite countries in the world and I had faith that you would be helping Russians flee.

Hopefully, I will get to come visit again once this all calms down.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#414

Post by justinpowers »

atlantas wrote: post #374
therusskiy wrote: post #6

I managed to escape the country yesterday, had to flight to Egypt of all places, because ALL (even business) tickets were sold out. The recent news is that starting March 6 all international flights are suspended, the trap has closed. The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. I am at Georgia now and banks refuse to open bank accounts to Russians, and I need…

> The disheartening thing is that even if you never supported Putin, other countries treat you as enemy. This is precisely what leads to atrocities like Japanese internment camps. We are repeating dark history in real time and it's being actively cheered on by a bloodthirsty mob who have no regard for innocent civilians and kids.

> it's being actively cheered on by a bloodthirsty mob who have no regard for innocent civilians and kids.

What are you referring to here specifically? Genuinely curious. I haven’t encountered much anti-Russian sentiment (yet), I’ve only noticed anger towards Putin, his cronies, and their soldiers. As far as I can tell, most understand that the Russian people didn’t choose this despite how little they did (or could do) to stop it.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#415

Post by antattack »

artyomxyz wrote: post #378
andrey123 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Disclaimer: Russian] According to my estimations, probably at least 95% of people who are "against the war" do not go out to participate in protests. My estimations are based on talking to my colleagues (large IT company). Yes, starting from now, protesting becomes more risky (you may go to jail for years if you get caught second time). But just a week ago, it was mostly harmless (yes, some people get arrested for f…

In some way you’re right. But it’s important to note that we haven’t chosen this government, we haven’t chosen this country we live in. I personally lost any hope to change it one year earlier after participating in pro-Navalny protests. Now, I just don’t want to have anything in common with this government. I’m choosing another one. And I’m not going to pay taxes to Russian government anymore

Don't beat yourself over it. Now that you're out of the country, you can donate time and/or money to help fight for tolerance and against Putin regime.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#416

Post by SeanLuke »

ignoramous wrote: post #370
SeanLuke wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I grew up mostly with American propoganda. I didn't know that the US had a long history of overthrowing governments in the Middle East and South America, and generally meddling in their affairs. I'm sorry, but this is whataboutism in its full glory. The US has a free press, and its unfortunate history of overthrowing or supporting governments was and is well documented by the press and by historians in the Unit…

Look at my shit, even if as smelly, it is better documented than yours. > I'm sorry, but this is whataboutism in its full glory. Dismissing every argument with whataboutism seems to be flavour of the day, even when it is not whataboutism.

You're welcome to your own opinions, and your own blithe dismissals, but you are not welcome to your own facts.

I lived during most of the period discussed by the GP. Everything from the Bay of Pigs to supporting the Shah to Iran Contra to the invasion of Grenada was well covered and well criticized in the US press. And the US invasion of Iraq was highly criticized in the US press even as the US government was facing an uphill battle to convince the world that it was proper by brandishing fake bottles of poison at the UN.

The US has done a lot of bad stuff. But claiming that the press just went along with it is historical revisionism, full stop.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#417

Post by veganhouseDJ »

ignoramous wrote: post #353
bsedlm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. maybe these people have grown in better functioning democracies (unlike Russia or my own country) so they act as if the people were well represented by their governments; unlike reality for most countries with a serious corruption problem.

> ...a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. Xenophobes are well and truly out of their closets. This is why I hate wars. It incentivizes the absolute worst everywhere.

Not to mention it literally feeds directly into Putin's delusions.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#418

Post by BossingAround »

tsol wrote: post #376
traceroute66 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. Its easy to say that but you have to look at the bigger picture. It's easy to say "just punish the government / the oligarchs", but as most Westerners know, these people have become extraordinarily adept at hiding their money and distributing their assets. So it is very difficult indeed to target them per-se, hence you nee…

Quoted post unavailable.

> I don't support Russia, but I can see why they want Ukraine, a country that is in their borders, to stay in their orbit.

This is a complete red herring. They don't want Ukraine to "stay in their orbit," they are colonizers that are fighting against Ukraine's independence. Putin said he doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO. Nobody in NATO is eager to accept Ukraine. Ukraine said they'd stay independent. Now, Putin is saying that Ukraine is essentially Russian, and he's bringing up fake news about genocide and neonazi government.

If you think that Putin will stop at Ukraine, you're sorely mistaken. It's Ukraine now, Georgia right after, and then we shall see.

You do not negotiate with terrorists. We've tried. Ever since Crimea in 2014, the west has been in one large negotiation with Russia, and obviously, nothing worked. At this point, it's all-out everything except actual troops on ground, because it's obvious Putin won't stop unless he's stopped in some way.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#419

Post by ajsnigrutin »

ledauphin wrote: post #199
Yajirobe wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans about US wars: 'we cannot do anything about our government - they engage in wars and we couldn't stop them if we tried' Americans about Russian wars: 'the average Joes need to go out to the streets and bring Putin down'

this is a silly caricature. historically, a majority of Americans supported both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq when they started, and public opinion did not turn against them for several years, and even then it was not an overwhelming majority. Obama campaigned on the folly of those wars but chose to stay involved because it was believed by many that some level of success could yet be achieved for the people in th…

And a majority of russians support the war now... some because they support putin, some because they want putin to protect the russian minorities in ukraine, and a lot of them because of the propaganda in russia. Yes, some people don't want that, and articles like this one now is a part of anti-russian propaganda.

America had its own share of propaganda, that brought popular support for those wars... some even very fake one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony America also had hippies and other anti-war groups, so the situation is not that much different.

Re: Russians are trying to flee – data from Google Trends

#420

Post by Buttons840 »

tsol wrote: post #376
traceroute66 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people seem ok with punishing Russian individuals for the actions of the government. Its easy to say that but you have to look at the bigger picture. It's easy to say "just punish the government / the oligarchs", but as most Westerners know, these people have become extraordinarily adept at hiding their money and distributing their assets. So it is very difficult indeed to target them per-se, hence you nee…

Quoted post unavailable.

> The other option, if we are really trying to do our best to avoid nuclear war, is to capitulate to Russia.

That is not our choice to make (assuming neither of us is Ukrainian). Our choice is only to cut off support and let Ukraine fight truly alone.

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