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China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

reuters.com

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Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#411

Post by hanniabu »

toyg wrote: post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

> The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust.

I genuinely wonder if the current impeachment process will have the same effect. Will people move on from it thinking it's just a thing with the GOP, or will they take it as a greater systemic failure and give up on the government.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#412

Post by bllguo »

bobbytran wrote: post #306
bllguo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay? And the US is a place where I can get brutalized, shot, and killed by the police based on.. nothing. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Chinese citizens are living lives thinking and worrying about the same kinds of things we do. Not cowering in fear bemoaning their lack of freedoms.

I've heard this argument again and again from Chinese government sympathizers...and it's just not true. The vast majority of people aren't brutalized and shot by the police. If it does happen, it goes through a trial and the court systems. The vast majority of people talking out against the Chinese government will be jailed or re-educated in China...that's the difference.

Yes, the vast majority of US citizens aren't getting brutalized by the police. Similarly, the vast majority of Chinese citizens are not being jailed or re-educated. You can't just compare the US population at large to the subset of Chinese people who speak out against the government.

The claim was that people in China live in a state of fear, and I refuted it. Let's not conflate things.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#413

Post by kortilla »

toyg wrote: post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by “semi-fascist US consensus”?

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#414

Post by Supermancho »

TheNorthman wrote: post #140
alasdair_ wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would trust the CDC’s numbers because I know of no incentive for them to lie and their numbers have generally been truthful in the past. In addition, any doctor at the CDC is free to say “these numbers are fraudulent” publicly without worrying they will be arrested. I would not trust a political party’s economy numbers without external verification, however, because a party has an incentive to lie.

> because I know of no incentive for them to lie Their incentive to lie seems obvious to me. The US benefits from what hurts China. Besides, the CDC have been caught accepting millions of dollars from commercial interests ("Big pharma"), which obviously also plays a role in fear mongering.

So it is the US Gov bribing the CDC to "hurt" China? No. While the CDC is tarnished by the events surrounding the 2015 scandals, and the US is in opposition to many Chinese initiatives, these things are not related. Hurting China via misinformation about a legitimate contagion hurts the world. There are levels of trust and Chinese officials are about as reliable as US candidates running for office (ie I have 0 trust).

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#415

Post by nate_meurer »

grecy wrote: post #380
nate_meurer wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have huge problems with policing in this country, no doubt. This is simply not comparable to the systemic oppression and persecution of political and ethnic undesirables in places like China. Note that millions of us Americans who are disgusted with systemic racism and authoritarian overreach in our country are free to discuss it openly, assemble in opposition, and vote our conscience. Do you imagine a person in C…

You're missing my point entirely. Americans have no idea they are being fed propaganda. That's my point. That's what I said right back at the start. It's not relevant what a person in China can or can't do.

No, that's not the only point you've been arguing. In response to the assertion that American dissidents are not jailed or killed as a matter of policy, you responded with this:

> Plenty of people were jailed in the occupy wall street peaceful demonstrations. Open your eyes.

My argument is that this is a bullshit, apples-to-oranges distraction. I'm sorry to be so blunt.

> Americans have no idea they are being fed propaganda.

What "Americans" are you talking about? You're talking to an American right now. There are millions of us fully aware that we're swimming in spin, biased reporting, and government misinformation. If anything, seeing propaganda everywhere we look has become a bit of an American pastime. Regardless, look around at this forum; I can't count how many heated debates we've had on HN about the dark, rotten corners of this country's past and present. Everything from the genocide of the Native Americans to the Lost Cause, the Iraq War, Snowden, what have you.

It's bizarre that you can invoke the deaths of American protesters at the hands of the police, and then condemn Americans' collective gullibility and disinterest as though it's somehow comparable, in any fucking way whatsoever, to things like the Great Firewall. They are not comparable.

You and I agree on more things than not. But on some topics like this, I really think you get carried away with sweeping and reactionary generalizations that don't help your case.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#416

Post by djsumdog »

hanniabu wrote: post #411
toyg wrote: post #130

Gorbachev used to say that Chernobyl was where the USSR really started to crumble. The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. Similarly, Katrina was where the semi-fascist US consensus under GW Bush went to pieces. I suspect China will experience a similar moment at some point. This might well be it.

> The disaster made clear how morally bankrupt and technically incompetent the system really was, wiping out any remaining goodwill or trust. I genuinely wonder if the current impeachment process will have the same effect. Will people move on from it thinking it's just a thing with the GOP, or will they take it as a greater systemic failure and give up on the government.

Things on track for us to have the first re-election of an impeached president. Let that sink in.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#417

Post by marcosdumay »

moralestapia wrote: post #85
jmnicolas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this thing was killing half of the infected persons there would already be much more deaths than there is now. Unless most the infections occurred very recently which is pretty unlikely. I think my 98% is probably a bit too optimistic, but your 53% is way beyond pessimistic.

>there would already be much more deaths than there is now Why? People can be sick for quite some time (in this case, a month, maybe?) and then ultimately die from the disease, this is actually like ... the most common scenario ... I have been unpleasantly surprised by how much people struggle to understand this simple concept. Recovered / (recovered+death) is how you do it. It's common sense, come on ...

> People can be sick for quite some time (in this case, a month, maybe?) and then ultimately die from the disease

Usually, not from a viral infection. The usual scenario from a viral infection is that if you are not dead in 2 weeks, you will almost certainly recover.

There are exceptions, but nothing I've read about this virus leads to the conclusion that it is one of those.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#418

Post by rossdavidh »

koheripbal wrote: post #263
rossdavidh wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not saying you're wrong, I think it's worth pointing out that the reason the 1918 flupandemic was called the "Spanish flu" for many years, was that Spain was the first nation to admit that there was a problem. They weren't the first, or even second or third nation to get it, just the first to admit it. So the problem of not admitting the seriousness of the situation, is not a new one. Which is not to say th…

A government held to the standards of over a hundred years ago is still garbage by today's standard. "x is not a new problem" - is not an argument - it's a whataboutism. Every single problem has existed before.

You're right, it's not an argument, it was a thing to point out, that this problem is not specific to non-democracies. The reason the example is from 100 years ago, is that we haven't really seen as serious a threat as that since then.

The closest we've had in the western world since then, was AIDS in the 80's, and I don't think the response was all that top-notch in the first few years. But then, the disease speed of mortality was much slower. We haven't really seen what a western democracy would do in a case like this, since 1918.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#419

Post by marcosdumay »

koheripbal wrote: post #292
jmnicolas wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to your link the survivability rate is almost 98% (305 deaths for 14628 cases). (I'm trying to inject a bit of optimism here, people are so gloomy).

These data are likely a product of garbage in / garbage out. Hospitals are turning away patients - most patients aren't having samples sent for DNA verification - many patients are too afraid to go to the hospital - etc... We likely will not have a clear picture of survivability for some time.

We will get a clear picture in a week or so, from the cases that appeared outside of China.

Re: China to inject $174B of liquidity on Monday as markets reopen

#420

Post by pdonis »

stevehawk wrote: post #401
pdonis wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That just sounds like a sensational headline lacking in context and details. It was well documented by multiple investigations after the fact.

That they had a bunch of school buses sitting around? Did they also have a bunch of bus drivers, or other qualified people with CDLs, sitting around on call? Because most of them are usually part time employees with second or third jobs and probably also had their own families and problems to solve.

> That they had a bunch of school buses sitting around?

That they had an obvious resource which with proper planning (which would, of course, include lining up drivers) could have been used to evacuate large numbers of people, but which was not used at all, and was not even considered in what little prior planning the city and the state did do.

> most of them are usually part time employees with second or third jobs and probably also had their own families and problems to solve.

Um, put the drivers' families on the bus they're driving?

Again, this is the sort of thing proper advance planning will obviously take into account.

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