411–420 of 526 posts
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They would be able to ship in any language, that is what software engineering is all about.
True, but would they be able to ship within the window they could become relevant? Would they be able to add the required features? You can ship your own clone of Reddit next week, with blazingly fast code, running on two tiny VMs and supporting more load than Reddit, but would it be successful?
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> webassembly [is] eating JVM's cake It's hard for me to take all the "Java is dying" threads seriously when they don't even seem to understand where Java plays. Webassembly ? Really? That's a client-side tech, and 99.999% of Java devs ceded the browser battleground pre-9/11. Java's bread and butter is EAI, ETL, and server-side business application development. Particularly with pieces requiring heavily distributed d…
I said LLVM and webassembly. LLVM has replaced JVM as a programming language target bytecode in the last 10 years (except Kotlin no new JVM language). JVM has lost web to JS 20-15 years ago, and Webassembly is now taking shape as proper web bytecode. I do not know what will be the most dominant language + bytecode in 25 years, but I would bet $10000 that it isn't Java and JVM.
mentioning javascript or webassembly is also a bit strange and would seem to demonstrate some kind of misunderstanding.
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> The Java ecosystem has been slowly dying for years, it's already the new Cobol at this stage. This has been said for at least the last ten years. Not only is Java not dying, but companies like Apple and Facebook (not to mention Netflix, Amazon and Google, that are mostly or largely Java already) are increasing their investment in the platform. This was not the case when COBOL was 25. The reason this is so is that J…
I think you’ve drunk the kool-aid a little. Outside of complex projects headed by PhD compsci students (who used to learn java in uni but those courses are now taught in python) there isn’t a whole lot of mindshare going towards java these days. At least in regards to new FOSS projects. I can say that my company’s use of java is diminishing rapidly over the last 5 years too. No matter what you think of the technologi…
C++, Java, C#, Smalltalk, Prolog, Lisp, OCaml (used to be Caml Light), Haskell are still being taught.
Those doing compilers, also get to enjoy Algol, PL/I, COBOL, Fortran and a couple of other relevant languages in the history of computing.
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> Because development that happened in 1994 is really relevant today. 1994? We still depend on tons of features, infrastructure, and techniques developed in the 60s and 70s. Heck, most of what the JS world considers "state of the art" was already available in 70s languages. As for the snark, first, the innovations the parents refers to is not "JavaBeans, Java Server Pages, and Java Server Faces", but stuff like rock-…
The contention was that other languages had a “lot to catch up” with Java because it’s been around for 25 years. So how haven’t other statically typed languages “caught up”? In fact, Java is so far behind C# with true Generics, LINQ - not the syntax the entire linq expressions -> expression trees -> runtime providers that can parse the trees and translate it to a destination syntax, etc. it’s laughable. Can anyone sa…
as far as ides go, i vastly prefer intellij to visual studio.
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Too little too late, and I highly doubt that (5-year-old) Valhalla will deliver even one of the promised features (value types) in the next 3 years. Remember that the original plan was to have all Valhalla features in Java 10. Java/JVM was in the ideal position to dominate the software world for the whole 21th century 15 years ago. Instead they did an IE6 and stagnated for so long that their competitors became plain…
> webassembly [is] eating JVM's cake It's hard for me to take all the "Java is dying" threads seriously when they don't even seem to understand where Java plays. Webassembly ? Really? That's a client-side tech, and 99.999% of Java devs ceded the browser battleground pre-9/11. Java's bread and butter is EAI, ETL, and server-side business application development. Particularly with pieces requiring heavily distributed d…
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> OpenJDK is an open distribution and preinstalled on all major operating systems My understanding is that it is preinstalled on chrome os and android, but is not preinstalled for any major linux distribution, is a separate third-party download for windows and Mac, and is unavailable for iOS.
On the contrary, Linux distributions ship only OpenJDK.
I don't see how this is an argument though, there is no Java in a standard desktop/server installation, but it's trivial to install if needed.
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> webassembly [is] eating JVM's cake It's hard for me to take all the "Java is dying" threads seriously when they don't even seem to understand where Java plays. Webassembly ? Really? That's a client-side tech, and 99.999% of Java devs ceded the browser battleground pre-9/11. Java's bread and butter is EAI, ETL, and server-side business application development. Particularly with pieces requiring heavily distributed d…
I didn't know Java had so much mindshare for ETL. Can you explain further?
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All of these are technical issues which will be solved by Google eventually, I'm not worrying much about that, they definitely have the resources to make it work.
I bet that in 5 years Kotlin will have as much market as other alternative JVMs languages have today. And regarding Google, Kotlin is not among the beloved ChromeOS and Fuchsia languages. So it depends very much on their internal politics.
I believe it supports Most Android and Linux apps now.
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> I think you’ve drunk the kool-aid a little. Don't know about kool-aid, but if you want to do interesting platform work -- on GC, compilers or low-overhead observability -- you could work at Microsoft on .NET, at Google on V8 (or Go), or at Mozilla on WebAssembly, but the truly cutting-edge, state-of-the-art work is done at Oracle on the JDK (and related projects like Graal), which is where I get to lead a project t…
Here is my fickle opinion of course not reflecting of market shifts. A couple of years ago I was a CTO of a midsized company which had a misfortune of building the main product on top of Oracle DB (decision was made before me). Oracle the database is great: performant, scalable. A bit pricey and complex to manage but that's acceptable for what it delivers. Oracle the company is absolutely horrible. I've never dealt w…