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Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

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Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#411

Post by jmalicki »

enraged_camel wrote: post #286
JonFish85 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not thinking just SS. Imagine in 30-40 years when SW engineers are retiring with their $5m 401k, but their neighbor is still barely making rent at their service-level job. I imagine there are many more people who have foregone retirement savings to pay off their massive college loans. Politically, the story would be something like this: why should you, a multi-millionaire SW engineer who hasn't paid taxes on your…

>>I'm not thinking just SS. Imagine in 30-40 years when SW engineers are retiring with their $5m 401k, but their neighbor is still barely making rent at their service-level job. It's interesting that you believe people with $5M+ networth would have service workers as neighbors. :)

I live in the Peninsula (San Mateo County, CA). My side of the street is mostly rentals (2BR townhouse duplexes) costing about $4k/mo. The other side of the street is single homes, 3BRs that go for $1.6M. If you want good schools for your kids in the Peninsula, $4k/mo isn't a crazy rent, you might be able to go somewhere else in the area and pay $3k, but maybe you care enough about your kid's future to pay the extra $1k/mo for better schools... so you have a lot of people who are tradespeople or who are struggling to save much after they take care of their kids, but a lot of the homeowners are probably worth $5M at retirement.

My former next door neighbor had to move far away because she just couldn't afford it anymore, but probably at least a half-dozen families on my block could plausibly have net worths in the $5M range. In a neighborhood like this you see $70k and $10k cars parked next to each other.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#412

Post by trophycase »

LeoJiWoo wrote: post #13

We need to cut student loans,and at the same time force tuition back down (probably by putting federal and state pressure on them by threatening to cut grants or taxing them higher). Universities need to return to their core purpose teaching young minds, furthering science, or preparing them for jobs. Instead of the corporate universities drowning students in debt.

Drowning students in debt so they are basically forced to work for evil corporations who do evil things.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#413

Post by ako »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155
jackweirdy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

An education doesn't just benefit the one getting the education. The entire society benefits.

Educated people are crucial to successfull companies, thereby creating more jobs.

Educated people are crucial to a healthy democracy, where populist politicians have less chance of getting elected.

I would argue that it's probably more important for the entire society for someone to get a good education than for the person himself. Therefor education should be subsidized.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#414

Post by Domenic_S »

dmschulman wrote: post #344
Domenic_S wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's part of the problem now though, there's no room for nuance. You almost HAVE to take an extreme position in order to be heard. For instance, the GP mentioned anti-vaxxers. There are many different kinds of "alternative" stances on vaccinations, and only one (very) extreme position is "vaccines cause autism". But if you mention anything about vaccines that isn't 100% of vaccines are amazing 100% of the time you…

You're not presenting your opinion on the subject of vaccines though, you're presenting your opinion on the subject of having opinions about vaccines. Give me your nuanced thoughts on vaccines if you want to have a productive discussion with someone. I think we're seeing a completely different trend, spurred on by social media and the ability for people to broadcast their own messages/opinions about a topic, and that…

It's so wild how certain topics will trigger a response. Your comment was about nuance, and I replied with (what was meant to be) a mostly complimentary comment, expanding on that topic. But you latched on to the vaccine part of it that was meant only as an example. Something about that subject really gets people's blood pressure up; I notice my comment above was downvoted as I predicted - although not by you, as far as I could tell. (FWIW a nuanced discussion about vaccines isn't germane to this topic, so I will respectfully pass on that.)

Anyway, I think you're right about social media amplifying human nature, but I don't think it's about opinions. I think most people don't really care too deeply about most things -- one major reason why voting turnouts are so low! Sure, they care about one or two things passionately, but they're mostly moderate on most things. More universally though, people care about attention. They love attention. It's wired into our DNA; babies do everything they can for attention, because attention is survival.

But it turns out that having moderate views isn't really all that interesting. It doesn't demand attention the way having (or representing to have) extreme views does. So are the extreme views genuine, or just a show for attention?

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#415

Post by ehnto »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155
jackweirdy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

I don't see any issue with that at all. Imagine how many potentially high achievers flounder away because they aren't surrounded by the right people and influences to succeed, because they couldn't get into university. Even freeloaders are going to learn something and be better people for it, and university might be free but everything else isn't, they will still need a job and be contributing to society.

Not to mention, money shouldn't be the barrier for entry to keep admissions in check if you want one. Viability should be. Universities already screen for good candidates. Change the screening to suit.

On top of that, you still have to be succeeding in uni to stay in uni

If a few freeloaders get a degree they don't need. Would society have lost anything but money?

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#416

Post by JBlue42 »

jmalicki wrote: post #410
JBlue42 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a bit miffed to learn that the max contribution for an IRA and Roth IRA combined is only $5,500. I did some reading and understand the point of it but I would much prefer to be in control of my own money and where it is invested than some of the limited options given through an employer's 401k.

When you change jobs, you can rollover your 401(k) into an IRA, so if you're in an industry where change jobs every 3-5 years, the extra savings makes the difference pretty small (you can always put your money into a low-fee index fund in the 401(k) and then manage it more when you rollover). Further, a lot of 401(k)s at larger companies that use Fidelity (at least, possibly others) have a feature where you can alloc…

Yes, that's what I did after leaving my last job and read up more on IRAs. For retirement savings, the plan is for index funds. I was more annoyed by the max on IRAs since a lot of the companies I've worked for have either not offered 401ks or just had poor options.

This Bogleheads post had some good replies about why this is the way it is in terms of contribution max:

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=115303

It is what it is and, until I find something decently high-paying, doesn't really matter in the short run.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#417

Post by specialist »

Fomite wrote: post #362
specialist wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reimburse my child per a formula: A = 100%, B = 80%, C = 60%, etc. 4.0 GPA = 120% (hasn't happened). I will happily pay for everything, a full ride, as a parent or a taxpayer, if the student does the work.

You've just disincentivized your child to take organic chemistry.

Ya, that's a good point. As a taxpayer and a parent, I do want students to dabble. So maybe cover the first two years, no questions, no qualifications. Thereafter, I'd want any effort I'm paying for to be made in earnest.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#418

Post by specialist »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #403
specialist wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reimburse my child per a formula: A = 100%, B = 80%, C = 60%, etc. 4.0 GPA = 120% (hasn't happened). I will happily pay for everything, a full ride, as a parent or a taxpayer, if the student does the work.

Optimize for least amount of challenging classes, impose huge monetary penalty for risk taking. Sounds like you're doing a stand up job in parenting.

Thanks. I do my best. I'm glad you approve.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#419

Post by fnl »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155
jackweirdy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

The problem with maximizing efficiency is that it kills diversity and creativity. In my home country, Austria, everyone can study anything for free, and I think it has not had that negative impact either. Most people are reasonable and will study something they can make a living off.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#420

Post by Kluny »

sol_remmy wrote: post #213
martin_bech wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a system like that. Its called taxes and free education. Everyone is offered free college education, including basic living expenses. In return everyone pays a litle more in taxes. And those who choose college, often earn more, and then pay more in taxes. (Im from Denmark)

Maybe you should focus on not falling too far behind Finland, the Netherlands and Sweden first. I don't think I've ever heard of a Danish tech company. Even tiny Iceland has EVE Online.

EVEOnline? Are you kidding?

Denmark is the home of BlueTooth, ZenDesk, Skype, and a company called Danfoss which you've certainly never heard of but provided microchips and motherboards for a large percentage of the world's tractors, district heating plants, refrigeration centers, and industrial greenhouses. Denmark is a technology powerhouse with manufacturing capabilities that outrank countries a dozen times their size.

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