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Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

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Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#351

Post by jdmichal »

godelski wrote: post #348
jdmichal wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where a TARP-like buyback would come into play. Negotiate to buy private student loans and extinguish them also. I know there are charity-type groups that do this with mortgages, though I'm having trouble finding any links at this current moment. But, honestly, I'm not a huge fan of logic lines that sound like, "We can't help everyone, so therefore we should help no one." We should absolutely strive to help ev…

Are you talking about things like Rolling Jubilee[1]? They focus on credit card debt. I heard about them YEARS ago, and they were trying to get on student loans back then and it looks like they still haven't been able to do it. [1] http://rollingjubilee.org/

I definitely remember reading about them. They're a good example of the type. It looks like they are transitioning their focus to The Debt Collective, which looks like some sort of play on collective bargaining instead?

https://debtcollective.org/

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#352

Post by errantblaze »

lrem wrote: post #306
ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

Many countries provide free (you don't even have to buy overpriced books or any other scam) education on all levels (including PhD). Even the middling ones like Poland. You simply estimate your rough requirements for different specialties and fund that many students. Admissions can become somewhat cutthroat (50 applicants per slot are not unheard of), but that only works for the better.

Would you say that this is generally the type of model people are campaigning for in the U.S. when "free college" is mentioned? Years ago, I had initially assumed people were applying that phrase the to the current U.S. model, where almost anyone can get into somewhere, as long as they can pay (not just tuition, but living expenses and time as well), with some programs being very easy, and they wanted all of that covered.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#353

Post by specialist »

sli wrote: post #303
elif wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's wrong with a 4-year vacation where you enrich your mind? That sounds perfectly healthy on an individual level, and tolerable on a societal level. Perhaps even necessary if you consider the deterioration of discourse in this country. Also, It's not like food and housing becomes free when tuition is removed.

Perhaps we could make only the first time through college free. If you fail or drop out, the next time through, the student covers tuition themselves. I have no real opinion on that idea, or any idea how effective it would be, so I'll say nothing more.

I reimburse my child per a formula: A = 100%, B = 80%, C = 60%, etc. 4.0 GPA = 120% (hasn't happened).

I will happily pay for everything, a full ride, as a parent or a taxpayer, if the student does the work.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#354

Post by ChuckMcM »

jedberg wrote: post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

"It's way too easy to get money for college."

I would go a bit further and say it is way to easy to get money for bad college. Looking at some of the ways for-profit colleges pitch pretty worthless degrees as a "path to higher pay" and simultaneously lay down the student loan application reminds me of the mortgage refinance market of 2007.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#355

Post by gozur88 »

jackweirdy wrote: post #68
jedberg wrote: post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

No, we couldn't, because people who don't go to college will be paying it.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#356

Post by posterboy »

The headline is sensational. The mere use of the word junk, although quite a few places apart, incures a mental relation of student loans to junk. The error here is that comparison between debt and market are a type mismatch and creativity is needed to resolve the actual meaning.

Just look at the top comment concuring, "There is definitely an education bubble".

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#357

Post by geodel »

elif wrote: post #296
ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

what's wrong with a 4-year vacation where you enrich your mind? That sounds perfectly healthy on an individual level, and tolerable on a societal level. Perhaps even necessary if you consider the deterioration of discourse in this country. Also, It's not like food and housing becomes free when tuition is removed.

Considering the discourse in universities in this country with all the perceived victimhood and unending political correctness I am not sure they are producing enlightened minds.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#358

Post by coss »

murph-almighty wrote: post #38
jedberg wrote: post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

> you'd probably see a lot more STEM degrees and a lot fewer of everything else I honestly think art schools are going to start running into problems convincing people it's a good idea to pay 60k a year for minimal ROI. My cousin wants to go into stage drama, and I don't want to tell her to not pursue her dream, but I think it's a lot to ask her to put herself in debt for years for a piece of paper that says she can…

and now you could* likely pay for private stage lessons.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#359

Post by gozur88 »

yegle wrote: post #52
jedberg wrote: post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

I thought the point of student loan is to grant it to anyone regardless of if they can repay? If the loan is granted by looking at the student's future potential to repay, students would prefer majors/colleges with higher chance of getting a student loan.

>I thought the point of student loan is to grant it to anyone regardless of if they can repay?

No, the student is supposed to pay back his loan regardless of major.

The reason we have student loans is under the traditional credit system someone without a job and a credit history isn't going to get a loan at all.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#360

Post by QML »

jedberg wrote: post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

> instead of four years doing something hate for a useless degree they'll never use

I think this comment here points to the issue of colleges -- most people have no clue what major they want to be or what type of career they want to pursue.

The result is that if they are pushed into a corner they do not want to be in, money would be spent and nothing of value would be gained.

What should be happening before college or at the earlier levels is people taking classes that allow them to explore but also teach them transferable skills.

Ideally, this is where G.E.'s should've worked. However, at the current state, they're just useless extra units that seemed be layed onto college students in order to keep them in school longer, and thus pay more tuition. In addition, most of the things they teach are not transferable - they're too specific / boring and after a semester, it's all forgotten.

Instead, the G.E. curriculum should focus on knowledge shared by every field, or that could be used in any career -- logic, data science, ethics, etc.

An improvement like this could justify the high-cost of a college education.

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