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Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

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Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#401

Post by iAMkenough »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #374
iAMkenough wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"acting rogue" but faced no action from OpenAI after this came to light

Because it's part of an investigation. Again this isn't proof of anything. He may have not ever used this information at work yet and so this is an issue between him and his former employer

Can you share more details about the investigation?

Typically the staff member being investigated would be placed on administrative leave during a lawsuit like this, even if they did nothing wrong. The fact that it didn't happen makes me think the investigation isn't being conducted properly.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#402

Post by LarsDu88 »

narism wrote: post #354
Danox wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open to Microsoft…

That’s an argument against Microsoft, not Intel. Intel’s main anti-competitive sin was against rival CPU/chipset/graphics manufacturers.

They commoditized their compliment, but made sure their chips only worked with their accessory products, particularly in the 70s

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#403

Post by aprilthird2021 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #397
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they fire him and settle with Apple? If they haven't done anything wrong, why settle? If he hasn't used the material at work but has some problem with his former employer, why fire him?

> If they haven't done anything wrong, why settle? One, because the evidence is damning–and comprehensive–against their interests, and OpenAI has a ticking clock around fundraising and going public that an ongoing lawsuit with Apple endangers. Two, because based on all the facts in the public domain–and Sam Altman's documented history of lying–the likelihood of Apple succeeding on the merits of this case are high. So…

> the evidence is damning–and comprehensive–against their interests

No it is not. An employee stole info from his former employer. There is no proof OpenAI asked for this or used it in any way. Employees could plausibly do such things thinking they will benefit over their peers at their new job without disclosing this to the new job.

> the likelihood of Apple succeeding on the merits of this case are high

Not if OpenAI hasn't actually solicited any of this or used any of that info. In discovery nothing will be found and the case will end there.

> The evidence presented shows Liu demonstrating a total lack of character and judgmeent, quite possibly to a criminal level

Character and judgment are not the most sought after qualities at a certain level of hard to recruit for work. They also might want to wait for the results of a trial to fire him as he could sue for wrongful termination if a court acquits him of stealing documents (still possible there could be evidentiary issues etc.)

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#404

Post by aprilthird2021 »

iAMkenough wrote: post #401
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's part of an investigation. Again this isn't proof of anything. He may have not ever used this information at work yet and so this is an issue between him and his former employer

Can you share more details about the investigation? Typically the staff member being investigated would be placed on administrative leave during a lawsuit like this, even if they did nothing wrong. The fact that it didn't happen makes me think the investigation isn't being conducted properly.

They are currently in a suit with Apple over this. If they fire him and Apple loses the suit and a jury decides he didn't even steal documents (a possible outcome) then he can sue for wrongful termination.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#405

Post by aprilthird2021 »

freejazz wrote: post #392
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not OpenAI. I can steal trade secrets from my employer and get a job as a Ben and Jerry's Ice cream scooper, it doesn't mean Ben and Jerry's has stolen those secrets

He's getting sued too. If Ben and Jerry's didn't disseminate your memo on how to steal trade secrets from your former employer to its new hires, I'd think you'd have a better point.

> If Ben and Jerry's didn't disseminate your memo on how to steal trade secrets from your former employer to its new hires, I'd think you'd have a better point.

Did OpenAI do this? And is there proof of it?

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#406

Post by aprilthird2021 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #131
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ambiguous still at this stage though. There's no proof he used this info at his job or that he was directed to take it by anyone (he may have thought it helpful to his career in a way OpenAI never asked for or even invited).

> There's no proof he used this info at his job LOL Liu hasn’t—to my knowledge—been fired. When OpenAI was notified of his conduct, they didn’t confidentially settle. Instead, OpenAI’s legal went cold on Apple. It’s not legally certain. But you really have to stretch the facts to make this seem ambiguous.

He should not be fired while trials are going on to determine if his conduct was criminal, against policies or not. That would open them up to wrongful termination if he prevails in court.

Why would they settle if they never directed employees to do any of these actions?

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#407

Post by freejazz »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #405
freejazz wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's getting sued too. If Ben and Jerry's didn't disseminate your memo on how to steal trade secrets from your former employer to its new hires, I'd think you'd have a better point.

> If Ben and Jerry's didn't disseminate your memo on how to steal trade secrets from your former employer to its new hires, I'd think you'd have a better point. Did OpenAI do this? And is there proof of it?

Did you read the complaint? Maybe start there if you're going to be asking questions like this.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/28453229-apple-v-ope...

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#408

Post by iAMkenough »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #404
iAMkenough wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share more details about the investigation? Typically the staff member being investigated would be placed on administrative leave during a lawsuit like this, even if they did nothing wrong. The fact that it didn't happen makes me think the investigation isn't being conducted properly.

They are currently in a suit with Apple over this. If they fire him and Apple loses the suit and a jury decides he didn't even steal documents (a possible outcome) then he can sue for wrongful termination.

Administrative leave isn't firing him. He still has access to manipulate the internal investigation, which will be argued by Apple's lawyers.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#409

Post by senordevnyc »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #356
senordevnyc wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI just closed the largest funding round in SV history, $122 billion. The idea that you’d find it laugh out loud funny to call them well-capitalized just reveals your bias. OpenAI has plenty of cash to fight this. Apple having hundreds of billions doesn’t actually mean anything in a legal fight that might cost OpenAI nine figures in legal fees, maybe? If it goes for years? A historic judgment against OpenAI (zero…

> OpenAI just closed the largest funding round in SV history, $122 billion Chips don’t pay legal bills.

[flagged]

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#410

Post by seviu »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #326
seviu wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tang and Ternus where the candidates in 2021 as head of hardware engineering as Dan Riccio left. Tang lost and went to OpenAI. It’s well known within Apple that they hate each other.

They were candidates for SVP in 2021, with Ternus being selected. Tang left in 2024. Ternus was named CEO in 2026. Seems a stretch to say they competed for the role of CEO.

Oh it isn’t

This has Ternus driven all over it

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