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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#401

Post by artylerzysta »

2398 wrote: post #90
6d6b73 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the subsidies go back to the western Europe in the form of cheap products, and cheap labor. Also these subsidies were used to buy technology, machinery and goods from the West. Let's have Germany pay few trillions in reparations, and we can give back the billions in subsidies. Deal?

Sure, Germany pays reparations, Poland gives back Pomerania and Silesia (which were part of the reparations) and Western Europe forms a new EU so we don't have to deal with Poles any longer. Deal?

Are you still lacking lebensraum?

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#402

Post by tgv »

wswin wrote: post #129
niemandhier wrote: post #76

I love the polish, but credit where credit is due: „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f... Update: The comments below this are strange. I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”. Is Poland more efficient in it than other countries? I do not know. Would Poland have generated…

You greatly overestimate its significance. The benefits are roughly 1% of the GDP. In 2023 Poland netted 8.2 bn€ [1]. The GDP was 751 bn€. [1] https://www.pap.pl/en/news/poland-largest-recipient-eu-funds...

1% of the GDP is a considerable amount of money. The GDP is not a country's profit, not even its revenue. If we stick to 2023, Poland had a budget deficit of 5% of the GDP, which makes 1% a very welcome gift.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#403

Post by drstewart »

testing22321 wrote: post #195
DarkNova6 wrote: post #157

Investment, infrastructure, education. Same as China. Same as every other growing country. What the US and most other western countries do are: Let infrastructure rot, defund education, reroute money to large corporations. This is how you end up with failed state.

Can you give examples of western countries other than the US doing that? I’ve never seen it, I travel a lot.

Wow, since you're so well travelled you can also share examples of the US doing it, with the comparison to these other amazing utopian western countries.

Start with education spending per capita.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#404

Post by MobiusHorizons »

1718627440 wrote: post #269
tomalbrc wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come eastern germany does so poorly?

MBAs and company owners do not come from stem education.

Are you saying engineers and scientists don’t own companies? That’s an odd thing to say on a forum that’s basically dedicated to exactly that outcome.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#406

Post by steve1977 »

alephnerd wrote: post #53
steve1977 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SWE salaries are constant across all of Europe Sorry, but this is wrong. Cheaper labor is pretty much the only reason for nearshoring from more expensive European countries to places like Spain or Eastern Europe.

As I've mentioned before, I've had intimate experience hiring across Europe and at the 75th percentile and above, the salaries tend to be extremely close when comparing Western Europe and CEE. The difference becomes attitude. A German SWE wants a 9-5. A Czech or Romanian SWE wants to build the next JetBrains or UIPath. I don't want to hire the former - they're useless and a headache. I want to hire the latter.

I cannot confirm your experience with the attitude of the latter unfortunately (I can confirm the former though).

Edit: But as mentioned, the near-shoring resources also were quite substantially less expensive. So you could say we bought cheap and we got cheap.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#407

Post by ch4s3 »

6d6b73 wrote: post #29
ch4s3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there are plenty of countries that aren't facing those conditions now, or in the recent past and still have shitty economies. It undersells how hard it is to build a strong economy and therefore undersells how hard Poland has worked.

But maybe that's because these countries did not have to struggle as hard as Poland did?

I don’t find that to be a very compelling argument.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#408

Post by jacekm »

anonu wrote: post #349

Worked with many Polish developers for the last 8 years. Great group, very talented. However, the initial motivations to go there were to keep costs low. Eventually they saw their salaries increase 3x or 4x over the years. They totally deserved it, but the economics change if you're running a startup. Now with AI, not clear if the tech outsourcing dynamic will remain.

Anecdotal, but the company I work for offers to the juniors only +15% to what it used to offer 15 years ago. The salaries are growing mostly because previous government introduced huge increases to minimal salaries, but I don't feel the wages in IT grew significantly over the years. Which actually make sense - we used to have huge disproportion between regular worker salaries and IT ones, now the difference is getting smaller.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#409

Post by heyitsmedotjayb »

shrubble wrote: post #224
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #143

In the United States, Red/Right leaning States typically receive more federal funding than Blue States. Red States get 'propped up'. I bet a lot of people here criticizing that EU funding went to Poland are typically Right Leaning, and think they are making a some killer point about socialism, when back home they are also taking in the hand out money.

This is a poorly supported take, once you factor in the productive parts of the economy. If you have a lot of farmland in a red state and the profits are reported in a blue state, then counting the reported profits on the corporate balance sheet will give a distorted picture of what is happening. Look at e.g. General Mills, based in a blue state, but a great deal of what they buy are ag inputs from red states.

Wouldn't the red states be profiting off of blue states in your example? Why would General Mill's purchase of red states' outputs not show up as profits in the red states? This makes no sense.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#410

Post by DrBazza »

niemandhier wrote: post #76

I love the polish, but credit where credit is due: „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f... Update: The comments below this are strange. I ment: „Poland gets money, Poland transforms it into more money”. Is Poland more efficient in it than other countries? I do not know. Would Poland have generated…

> „Poland is the largest beneficiary of EU funds 2014-2020, with one in four euro going to Poland“ https://www.gov.pl/web/funds-regional-policy/poland-at-the-f... Update: The comments below this are strange.

The comments are questioning what you wrote, which implies without evidence, that a small amount of EU money relative to Poland's own GDP, in just 6 years, is somehow entirely responsible for Poland's growth.

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