Credit card debt collection • Hacker News Board

Re: Credit card debt collection

#401

Post by danans » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

bettercallsalad wrote: post #186

nologic01 wrote: post #159

It is in this domain, of broken promises and broken people that you can establish what a society is really made of. Graeber's Debt is obligatory reading (alas not easy to read) if you want to dig into the painful history of debt relations between humans. The post provides excellent insights into the odious side of consumer finance. It feels like a follow up with ideas about reform would not be wasted effort: Once thi…

I am far from religious, but one thing most religious traditions have common is how they ban usury/interest which would make much of global finance we have today “haram”. You can see the reverse effect too not only at an individual but collective level. Once the religious ethos disappears from a sect, widespread adoption of debt becomes the norm.

> one thing most religious traditions have common is how they ban usury/interest which would make much of global finance we have today “haram”.

The way Islamic finance avoids interest [1] - the bank buys a property and sells/leases it back to the borrower at a slightly higher price, paid in installments - sounds more like semantics than actually avoiding interest altogether.

It seems to rely on a belief that there is a fundamental difference between rent paid on borrowed money (AKA interest), and rent paid borrow the use of real property.

The virtue in Islamic banking seems to be that it has a healthy skepticism of financial derivative products, preferring to invest directly in physical assets and businesses. This probably avoids a great deal of risk (trading off the upside too).

1. https://www.guidanceresidential.com/resources/faith-based-fi...

Re: Credit card debt collection

#402

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

polski-g wrote: post #399

jiofj wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It isn't fair but in the US money carries moral weight, and many people assume the less of it you have, the worse of a person you are. This isn't about money, this is about debt. Owing money around really does sound like something a bad person would do.

The presence of debt makes you more susceptible to bribes and blackmail.

Most homeowners have debt. So do lots of folks that own cars. And credit cards. And poor people unfortunate enough to wind up in the hospital with sub-par health insurance. And 18 year old college students with bad judgement about credit cards.

Are all of these folks more susceptible to bribes and blackmail? This is a sizeable portion of the population.

Does bad credit of someone that just declared bankruptcy make someone more susceptible?

Couldn't a company just lessen this by paying well so that folks can get out of debt?

Re: Credit card debt collection

#403

Post by no-dr-onboard » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #216

standardUser wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher rates on what exactly? Isn't it pretty much just mortgage rates? Plenty of people have no plan or desire to buy property within the next seven years.

In the US, it also means things like getting denied for jobs and apartments. Car loans will be more: You might not be able to easily buy a new car. And that's not even getting into some of the other random things. You'll need to pay upfront to replace the washer that went out instead of financing - unless that financing is through one of the rent-to-own places (which still might be cheaper than going to the pay laund…

Bah. If you have no intention on purchasing a home then you're free to not care.

- Buy a used car in cash and wait a couple years for the bankruptcy mark to fall off. - Your credit has to be absolutely thrashed to not get an apartment, even then there are plenty of private landlords that won't do a credit check.

Its almost as though the presupposition is that you need financing for anything in life. You can save and pay cash, its possible. People have been doing this for generations and have been just fine. Businesses need to run off credit, individuals don't. Pay your way and live reasonably.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#404

Post by pluijzer » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

petesergeant wrote: post #265

pluijzer wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got my bad debt scrubbed this way. This was in the Netherlands. It is not always possible, some sources here (in Dutch): https://www.vldwadvocaten.nl/blog/bkr-en-avg-bezwaar-en-verz...

Google translation: “and that means that you can submit a GDPR request to have a BKR registration corrected” This suggests you can only get records removed if they’re incorrect — is that what you meant?

The record can technically be correct but not in "pursuit of a legitimate interest". In that case the negative record can be "corrected".

So, in my case. When I was a teenager I opened a second bank account with credit card. In only used the card once for something small and forgot about it. Throughout the years the cost of this card started to built up, messages to pay back where not received because I already had a different address and phone number.

Years later this resulted in a negative BKR registration for me. I explained the situation to the bank (that could technically let the registration be removed) but they refused. Later I had a lawyer order them to remove the registration, on grounds that me forgetting about a credit card when I was young was no reason to believe I wouldn't be paying my mortgage. The registration was therefor not in "pursuit of a legitimate interest". The bank honored this.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#405

Post by lostlogin » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:46 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #382

hiatus wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like that might not be possible these days. > On June 25, 2021, the Supreme Court of the United States held that a plaintiff must suffer a concrete injury resulting from a defendant’s statutory violation to have Article III standing to pursue damages from that defendant in federal court. The Court also held that plaintiffs in a class action must prove that every class member has standing for each claim asserted…

And then two years later they take and rule on a case that was completely fabricated. Awesome. Glad to know it's rules for thee and not for me

Isn’t the saying usually ‘rules for me and not for thee’?

Re: Credit card debt collection

#406

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #400

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not true? Do you have evidence refuting the premise that people with bad credit are more likely to skim cash from the till?

Do you? Its been some years since I saw any reporting on it, and I'm honestly not going to spend the time to dig it up for a comment.

I have no evidence either way, but it is not absurd in my opinion to suggest that people who make poor life decisions in one area of their lives might also make poor life decisions elsewhere.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#407

Post by PopePompus » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:51 PM UTC

alexis2b wrote: post #263

bettercallsalad wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am far from religious, but one thing most religious traditions have common is how they ban usury/interest which would make much of global finance we have today “haram”. You can see the reverse effect too not only at an individual but collective level. Once the religious ethos disappears from a sect, widespread adoption of debt becomes the norm.

There is also in the Bible the notion of a 50 years periodic Jubilee[1] when all debts would be canceled and the system effectively resets. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(biblical)

Wouldn't that kinda make it difficult for anyone to get a mortgage during year 49?

Re: Credit card debt collection

#408

Post by lolinder » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #379

lolinder wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The debt issuer has already written the debt off, why do they care whether it's bought by someone intent on forgiving it?

The debt issuer would note that they had to write most of that debt off, so the credit score impact will mean that the same borrower will have a much harder time getting another loan.

Ah, you're interpreting it differently: I took them as saying that you can only buy debt and forgive it once, not that you can only have your debt forgiven once.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#409

Post by danans » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #373

Tarq0n wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is a kind of slow debt relief that may have largely replaced the need for jubilees.

True. Lenders oppose inflation, debtors favor it. Which is why corporate media has apoplectic fits whenever interest rates go up or unemployment goes down.

It's more complicated than lenders opposing inflation but debtors favoring it. That only works if people are pure lenders or pure debtors.

In reality most people carrying significant debt are people who are strongly affected by inflation of the prices of goods and services, and most people and institutions who are in a position to lend are not as affected by such inflation.

The most at-risk people are those who are both in a lot of debt and also affected by the rising cost of goods in services. This can be anyone carrying a significant mortgage payment (as a % of income) and supporting a family simultaneously. High inflation hits these people especially hard because pay raises and real-debt-dilution often do not keep up with the rising costs of goods and services.

This can cause a great deal of financial fragility in the short term, even if the individual has good long term prospects due to inflation-based debt dilution.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility#Law_of_dimini...

Re: Credit card debt collection

#410

Post by shaftway » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

Aardwolf wrote: post #316

beaviskhan wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge (which still happens surprisingly often, given that chips were supposed to put an end to that): - With a debit card, I am out $X of my own money, until the bank can be bothered to agree that the charge is fraudulent and refund my money, which can take weeks or months, if at all. G…

> The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge Not sure if a fraudulent charge of a debit card is a thing I ever heard of in Europe. These cards have also been using chips for over 20 years. Maybe they work differently here. To me credit cards sound less secure than debit cards: debit cards have chips and pin codes. With credit cards, knowing the number is in theory enough (they have digital verification no…

Generally I've seen this happen when you've contracted to do business in some form and the other side reneges on it in some way. Like you ordered something online and it never ships.

We were going to get a large water purifier from Costco. On the order of $6000. We paid, but we had 3 days to cancel. We found it for significantly cheaper the next day and cancelled. 3 months later Costco still hadn't reversed the charge, so we challenged it with the credit card company. Fixed in 24 hours.

Also, it's worth pointing out that when you challenge something successfully, it's effectively like it never happened. Interest gets rolled back and you can call to have late payments associated with that time period striken from your credit report.

On the flip side, I would never use a debit card. I've been told "your pin was used so it must have been you" when contesting small things there. Credit card have chips and some banks allow you to use pins.