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Credit card debt collection

bitsaboutmoney.com

251–260 of 568 posts

Re: Credit card debt collection

#251

Article is great, (with it being written by pat mckenzie that is almost tautological) > The value of portfolios is a huge discount to the face value of the debts; at the point where a lender has only worked it themselves and the debt is a few months delinquent, portfolios generally fetch about 5 cents on the dollar. That value will continue to decay over time. I agree with his point directionally (the value of the so…

> in my experience you provide the debt collections agency all supporting contracts and account documents for each loan

This might be true for first party lender to first party debt buyer, but it often falls apart after that first step.

The article mentioned the chain of debt ownership and that, in my experience, is where contracts and supporting docs are lost. Once you're buying debt 3 or 4 steps removed from the primary lender the documentation becomes sparser and sparser, which is why as the article rightly said, most of these "last mile" agencies rely on people's ignorance and use a "spray and pray" strategy for debt collection.

My experience, from a large primary card issuer in the US, was that most of the major, reputable debt purchasing agencies would only buy primary debt portfolios that had _contractual guarantees_ about the accuracy of the supporting contracts and docs. They'd spend a lot of time and effort reviewing them, but they would in turn outright _refuse_ any such provisions when THEY sold their debt to smaller agencies!

Re: Credit card debt collection

#252

It is in this domain, of broken promises and broken people that you can establish what a society is really made of. Graeber's Debt is obligatory reading (alas not easy to read) if you want to dig into the painful history of debt relations between humans. The post provides excellent insights into the odious side of consumer finance. It feels like a follow up with ideas about reform would not be wasted effort: Once thi…

Debt: The First 5000 Years rewired my brain.

Debt crisis followed by debt relief is historically normal. Prompting Graeber to wonder if capitalism is inherently unstable.

Maybe capitalism somehow requires debt relief (eg jubilees, bankruptcy). Then we should codify it. Instead of continuing to treat them as unanticipated, unfortunate one-offs.

Our recurring bubbles and bailouts seem to be keeping with Graeber's thesis.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#253

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

The difference I see is that in Europe, at least where I live, at the end of the month the bank will charge your bank account with the full amount of whatever is the balance of your credit card. If you have no money you will go into overdraft and that’s about it, you basically have a problem and the bank will keep nagging about that overdraft if you don’t have an agreement. The goal is to use the “credit” of the cred…

Gotta love when you’re eating at a restaurant in Chile and when it’s time to pay they ask if you want it billed on your card in 6 monthly installments. Even as an American, it always makes me laugh a bit at the absurdity of doing that for your meals.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#254
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to think of me in that tone, then fine, but I never caveated the medical debt. As the sibling comment to you said, medical debt in a civilized society is just wrong. So I really don't care why the medical care was needed. Helping people out of debt for medical reasons is commendable. The thing I specifically caveated was people making bad financial decisions on their own. Sure, maybe giving an 18 year old…

Robin Hood, robbing the rich to give to the [morally validated].

Not the parent commenter but to chime in: I don't want to be a moral judge but I'd rather give money to someone actually poor than to someone richer than me that just lives beyond their means.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#255

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

[In the UK] despite the verbiage on most sites still saying "credit card", I've been using ordinary debit cards (from both Visa and MC) online for as long as I've shopped online, and never had a single issue related to them being debit. For many years I didn't even have a credit card Edit: it's possible that this is an issue of semantics. My cards have been debit cards in every sense of the term - they are labelled a…

I'm in the UK and my debit card literally says "VISA debit" in the lower right corner (with "debit" in much smaller text).

In any case, there are a couple of important semantic differences between a debit card vs a credit card that you pay off immediately:

* you automatically get insurance/protection for certain purchases in a credit card (so I read, I've never used it)

* It's much worse if someone steals your debit card details and starts making purchases than it is for a credit card, because it's linked to your current account that you use for other stuff. If your credit card gets deactivated for a while then it's no big deal really.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#256
post #221
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth can people be denied jobs for poor credit? You're not a creditor to your employer! Isn't this just the "social credit" system that people worry about in China, except privatised?

Someone with poor credit may be assumed more likely to commit fraud or steal from the company. Someone with poor credit might also be assumed to be personally irresponsible and lazy, and more likely to slack off, ignore necessary details or cut corners. It isn't fair but in the US money carries moral weight, and many people assume the less of it you have, the worse of a person you are.

>It isn't fair but in the US money carries moral weight, and many people assume the less of it you have, the worse of a person you are.

This isn't about money, this is about debt. Owing money around really does sound like something a bad person would do.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same experience, except it wasn't that simple. A family member told me I should settle with them, because that's what they did too. They wiped the balance and closed the account but the settlement stayed on my credit score for 7 years. I had a friend who was getting calls by a debt servicer and was making it seem like no big deal. I told my friend to ask the person about the 7 years, the person reluctantly admitted t…

Might as well not pay it, if it follows you anyway

If you want to buy a home you have to pay it, even if you’re past the seven years window. Or at least that’s what USAA did to us.

I had a credit card debt of about $700 after a failed startup that, when I called TD, I was unable to pay. It was “written off.” The debt was from 2015 and I was purchasing a home in the spring of 2023 and despite the balance having been written off 8 years ago, USAA demanded it be settled. So I spent 12+ hours in a Kafkaesque circle of hell trying to find someone to TAKE MY MONEY! Even the agents at TD found it sad-funny how desperate I was to pay and yet they seemingly had no system in place for me to pay off the debt I did owe them at some level. Ultimately, I got escalated so someone high enough up with enough tenure to find the right system to pay and a fax(!) was sent to USAA to settle that underwriting line item.

Interestingly, USAA also managed to find that I had a $25 Comcast bill from something like 11 years ago, likely having missed a final bill on move out of some apartment. This wasn’t reported on my credit report, ever. Somehow they managed to find it and I needed to pay.

I would love to know now about the underwriting process and how they find non-reported debts like my Comcast bill.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#258

It is in this domain, of broken promises and broken people that you can establish what a society is really made of. Graeber's Debt is obligatory reading (alas not easy to read) if you want to dig into the painful history of debt relations between humans. The post provides excellent insights into the odious side of consumer finance. It feels like a follow up with ideas about reform would not be wasted effort: Once thi…

Too bad the economics of the book is so muddled by Graeber's basic errors.

https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/10.1521/siso.2015.79.2.318

Re: Credit card debt collection

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might as well not pay it, if it follows you anyway

If you want to buy a home you have to pay it, even if you’re past the seven years window. Or at least that’s what USAA did to us. I had a credit card debt of about $700 after a failed startup that, when I called TD, I was unable to pay. It was “written off.” The debt was from 2015 and I was purchasing a home in the spring of 2023 and despite the balance having been written off 8 years ago, USAA demanded it be settled…

They are reported somewhere, that's how they find them. USAA will tell you their source if you ask - you have the right to it under the FCRA.

I've noticed sometimes some "weird" debts only show up on TransUnion and only TransUnion. If you're "checking your credit" with Equifax or Experian you won't see them. There is also "other" credit reports like Chexsystems.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#260

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

The difference I see is that in Europe, at least where I live, at the end of the month the bank will charge your bank account with the full amount of whatever is the balance of your credit card. If you have no money you will go into overdraft and that’s about it, you basically have a problem and the bank will keep nagging about that overdraft if you don’t have an agreement. The goal is to use the “credit” of the cred…

Swedish credit cards work with invoices and you are able to pay in partial payments, overdraft doesn't exist
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