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Credit card debt collection

bitsaboutmoney.com

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Re: Credit card debt collection

#301

Post by incongruity »

paulsutter wrote: post #278
Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

In the US, the terms of service are much better for credit cards than debit cards, so even folks who pay off their cards every month (for example, airline miles cardholders) prefer credit cards because of superior ToS. The terms on credit cards are expensive for issuers, so debit cards were introduced with terms more favorable to issuers. Even if they improved the terms, consumers would still be hesitant to use them…

  It’s so severe that even if they improved the terms, nobody would use them because US debit cards' reputation is tainted.
Say what now?

  “According to the 2019 Federal Reserve Payments Study1, “Debit cards, including both prepaid and non-prepaid, were used almost twice as often as credit cards in 2018, but the value of credit card payments exceeded the value of debit card payments by almost 30%.”
And

  In Visa’s Operational Performance Data4 report for the three months ending on Dec. 31, 2020, it reports $741 billion in U.S. debit transaction volume, a 17.4% increase over the previous year. It compares to $542 billion in credit card volume.
(Source: https://www.creditcards.com/statistics/debit-card-statistics...)

Debit cards in the US are widely used.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#302

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #297
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a bit more insidious than that in that in a lot of stores and restaurants in America owners just bake that fee into the price instead of explicitly passing it onto the consumer and giving them the choice on whether they want to pay it. So if you use a debit card in the states you are usually actually subsidizing everyone else’s 3% fees (there are in fact places that explicitly charge the 3% fee to credit card us…

a lot of stores and restaurants in America owners just bake that fee into the price instead of explicitly passing it onto the consumer Not really. Most businesses don't set prices based on "cost plus" methodology. Maximizing profit based on price and volume is how most do it. Some merchants may choose to absorb the 3%, to compete on price and maximize profit through higher volume than a competitor who charges the sam…

[deleted]

Re: Credit card debt collection

#303

Post by lolinder »

zepton wrote: post #87
lolinder wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The debt issuer has already written the debt off, why do they care whether it's bought by someone intent on forgiving it?

People are less likely to pay their debts if they think their debts will be sold to someone who will forgive it, so the debt issuer's other non-written-off debts will be harder to collect (since now those people know that they might be able to get out of their debts by waiting and hoping they get sold to a debt-forgiver).

That becomes a problem if debt forgivers become a large percentage of purchasers. It doesn't "only work the first time", it only works as long as you're in a tiny minority, which will likely be forever. The debt issuer won't take notice until the value of their debt starts to drop.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#304

Post by dbhere »

gregjor wrote: post #247

Great article. I like to learn how businesses really work and the unexpected ways they make money. One nit. The author wrote "... the impression among many informed people that most defaulted debt is medically-related is the result of successful advocacy work rather than being substantially based in reality." Followed by links to illustrate the magnitude of credit card debt and some facts about medical debt in the US…

The numbers don't support the author's claim about medical debts, not even the numbers that he himself cited: https://mastodon.social/@credit_me/110873466743347517

Re: Credit card debt collection

#305

Post by EGreg »

Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

Required watching for you Europeans, by a man who became an expert on payment fraud (by mostly making up his background but then legitimately becoming famous and an expert LOL)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ga-M2CpRgY

Re: Credit card debt collection

#306

Post by beaviskhan »

Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge (which still happens surprisingly often, given that chips were supposed to put an end to that):

- With a debit card, I am out $X of my own money, until the bank can be bothered to agree that the charge is fraudulent and refund my money, which can take weeks or months, if at all. Good luck paying rent or buying food or whatnot in the meantime if you don't have a nice savings cushion.

- With a credit card, I am out $0 of my own money, and now the bank is potentially out $X of THEIR own money, making them significantly more motivated to investigate promptly and agree that the charge is fraudulent. For however long this takes, I still have my own money to pay rent and buy food, and I'm not on the hook for paying the fraudulent charge.

The fact that credit cards tend to have "rewards" in the form of cash back or airline miles or whatever is secondary to me, personally, although I do take advantage of this as much as possible.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#307

Post by garaetjjte »

qwytw wrote: post #195
kioleanu wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just another symptom of the problem I would say. Although it does happen, there are other mechanisms in place to protect you from fraud, which discourage fraud in the first place. I’ve been paying with debit cards for more than 15 years in Europe, tens of thousands of transactions and not once did I need to reverse one.

> Europe, tens of thousands of transactions and not once did I need to reverse one. Me neither. But (living in an EU country) every time I hear about someone who was a victim of a fraud/scam/etc. when SEPA/Bank transfers or debit cards are involved the banks just seem to pretty much tell everyone that's not their problem and that you should go the police (who obviously can hardly ever get the money back from the scam…

You can do chargebacks also on debit cards, no?

Re: Credit card debt collection

#308

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

dylan604 wrote: post #66
owenmarshall wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes me as the same as saying “but the homeless person might take my $5 to buy whiskey instead of a hot meal.” Or, possibly more apropos to your example, “how do I know my medical debt relief payment goes to someone who truly Deserves It because of bad luck and not someone whose poor diet and exercise habits lead to their stroke?” The system is designed to turn bad choices into bad luck - and the opposite - a…

If you want to think of me in that tone, then fine, but I never caveated the medical debt. As the sibling comment to you said, medical debt in a civilized society is just wrong. So I really don't care why the medical care was needed. Helping people out of debt for medical reasons is commendable. The thing I specifically caveated was people making bad financial decisions on their own. Sure, maybe giving an 18 year old…

Frankly the vast majority of people with credit card debt I know still deserve relief. Even people who are under significant credit card debt due to frivolous spending— they likely need therapy or time to budget or similar but now they cannot due to the crushing weight and stress of credit card debt. Or they could’ve been able to pay it off but an emergency happened and they got laid off or they were already barely scraping by and now their car broke down or something.

I think we worry too much about what if undeserving people receive help. Most people are good people who just got caught out on something and could use some help getting themselves out of some goddamn 25% interest craziness.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#309

Post by pierat »

repiret wrote: post #93
eru wrote: post #36

> I will bet you that, in practice, they simply avoid collecting against anyone who demonstrates ability and financial resources to enforce their rights. This is one for the history books of borked equilibriums. We devoted substantial efforts to pro-consumer legislation to address abuse of (mostly) poor people. We gated redress behind labor that is abundantly available in the professional managerial class and scarce…

A little over a decade ago I knew a young adult in the US that had a pretty rough life and I was trying to help her get back on her feet. When you’re homeless, it’s hard to get mail, and hard to keep your stuff; going from nothing to your standard documents is tricky. To get your birth certificate, you need to write a check to the state at some address where you’ll be able to receive mail in 2-4 weeks. Once you have…

I was kicked out of my parent's house.

The really shit side: its impossible to change your drivers license (which is your "official address") to homeless.

And if you get sued, they send your mail to that former address, regardless if you ever get it.

And, well, I was sued. My parents destroyed my mail. And had a summary judgement against me on a case I didnt know exist, to an address I couldn't change cause I didnt have a new one.

Fuck this country.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#310

Post by wpietri »

beaviskhan wrote: post #306
Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

There is zero chance that I, a US resident, will ever use debit cards for anything. The reason is that in the event of a fraudulent charge (which still happens surprisingly often, given that chips were supposed to put an end to that): - With a debit card, I am out $X of my own money, until the bank can be bothered to agree that the charge is fraudulent and refund my money, which can take weeks or months, if at all. G…

Yeah, I don't use rewards or loyalty programs at all; I don't like giving over the headspace to corporate manipulators. But I still use debit cards very carefully because of the better protections from fraud for credit transactions.

The rise of the chip card may have fixed that; it's been a long time since I've had a problem. But I'm reluctant to find out.

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