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Credit card debt collection

bitsaboutmoney.com

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Re: Credit card debt collection

#271

Post by Uehreka »

Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

Not sure if this is different in Europe (check before saying it’s different, many people in the US aren’t aware of this either) but in the US at least all credit card transactions (and possibly debit too?) incur like a 3% fee. You’re paying that fee (either directly or through it being built into the price of goods) no matter what. The reason to use a card with a good rewards program is so that you actually get something in return for that small fee. So there is a sense in which you need to play the rewards game, otherwise you’re just paying more for goods for no reason.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#272

Post by nologic01 »

msla wrote: post #258
nologic01 wrote: post #159

It is in this domain, of broken promises and broken people that you can establish what a society is really made of. Graeber's Debt is obligatory reading (alas not easy to read) if you want to dig into the painful history of debt relations between humans. The post provides excellent insights into the odious side of consumer finance. It feels like a follow up with ideas about reform would not be wasted effort: Once thi…

Too bad the economics of the book is so muddled by Graeber's basic errors. https://guilfordjournals.com/doi/10.1521/siso.2015.79.2.318

I don't think he needs excuses but his errors and political biases pale in comparison to the systemic hypocrisy and gross inadequacy of an entire profession. Somehow the astrologers advising the emperors du jour have managed to declare themselves scientists and even receive Nobel prizes [1].

The hope is that others will manage to pick up the thread of inquiry and somehow integrate his historical and anthropological observations into a more truthful type of economics.

[1] There are always exceptions. A tiny number of economists do seem to grasp the nature of debt and money better than the vast crowd regurgitating banalities.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#273

Post by quaddo »

krapp wrote: post #221
pjc50 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth can people be denied jobs for poor credit? You're not a creditor to your employer! Isn't this just the "social credit" system that people worry about in China, except privatised?

Someone with poor credit may be assumed more likely to commit fraud or steal from the company. Someone with poor credit might also be assumed to be personally irresponsible and lazy, and more likely to slack off, ignore necessary details or cut corners. It isn't fair but in the US money carries moral weight, and many people assume the less of it you have, the worse of a person you are.

It's also possible that someone in debt would do something dishonest against the company, if a bad actor offered them money to do so.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#274

Post by worklaptopacct »

Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

Are debit cards really not accepted online? I thought that save for some very specific applications, all Visa or MasterCard branded cards should work online. Never got a Visa refused, and it's a Visa Debit. I know that some places like Germany informally refer to any Visa or Mastercard as a "credit card", in contrast to true(?) debit systems such as Maestro or V-Pay. So if a place says "No credit cards", it means that Visa and Mastercard cards of any kind are not accepted.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#275

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

Uehreka wrote: post #271
Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

Not sure if this is different in Europe (check before saying it’s different, many people in the US aren’t aware of this either) but in the US at least all credit card transactions (and possibly debit too?) incur like a 3% fee. You’re paying that fee (either directly or through it being built into the price of goods) no matter what. The reason to use a card with a good rewards program is so that you actually get somet…

It’s a bit more insidious than that in that in a lot of stores and restaurants in America owners just bake that fee into the price instead of explicitly passing it onto the consumer and giving them the choice on whether they want to pay it. So if you use a debit card in the states you are usually actually subsidizing everyone else’s 3% fees (there are in fact places that explicitly charge the 3% fee to credit card users but they are rarer in comparison)

That fee is massive business for Visa etc. There was a pretty big battle between Walmart and the credit card companies a few years ago because Walmart started defaulting to “debit” as the option when you stuck a debit card into their machines (debit cards can be run as either debit or credit) in order to save money. Which of course removed that money directly from the pockets of the payment processors.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#276

Post by LelouBil »

Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

In my experience (in France) everybody I know uses debit card and they are all accepted online anywhere.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#277

Post by b112 »

r2_pilot wrote: post #267
jiofj wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It isn't fair but in the US money carries moral weight, and many people assume the less of it you have, the worse of a person you are. This isn't about money, this is about debt. Owing money around really does sound like something a bad person would do.

>Owing money around really does sound like something a bad person would do. Why would this be your default assumption? People can end up owing money for any number of moral reasons. I'd rather someone have 10,000 in debt because they borrowed to help someone with medical debt who would have died otherwise, than for that hypothetical person to die because of a lack of money. From there, it's easy to posit someone losi…

Why would this be your default assumption

I am not saying it is fair, or that I would make this assumption.

However, car insurance is the same way. If some indicator shows correlation with a bad driver, eg age, birth sex, type of car, rates go up!

Same thing with unpaid/delinquent debt. It is an indicator. If you have 10 good potential employees to hire, and one has bad debt....

Re: Credit card debt collection

#278

Post by paulsutter »

Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

In the US, the terms of service are much better for credit cards than debit cards, so even folks who pay off their cards every month (for example, airline miles cardholders) prefer credit cards because of superior ToS.

The terms on credit cards are expensive for issuers, so debit cards were introduced with terms more favorable to issuers. Even if they improved the terms, consumers would still be hesitant to use them because US debit cards' reputation is tainted.

Europe has much stronger consumer protections, so I can only assume EU debit cards dont share the disadvantages of US debit cards.

[Edited for balance and clarity, thanks]

Re: Credit card debt collection

#279

Post by marktani »

Aardwolf wrote: post #218

> you, reader, use credit cards in preference to debit cards as a payment instrument Reader from Europe here. I use debit cards for daily payments, that's just the most standard expected payment method in Europe (with mobile payments now replacing it. Is a mobile payment app more like a debit or like a credit card? I have no idea actually!). But credit cards for online payments on the internet because (despite some d…

The one case I'm aware of in Europe where debit vs. credit makes a real difference is car rental companies.

They will only accept credit cards, not debit cards. Unless you also agree to pay for their shady and useless insurance (useless because typically the broker already offers better and cheaper insurance, so in this case you double pay).

Re: Credit card debt collection

#280

Post by jimnotgym »

If you are in Europe or the UK GDPR is your friend!

If you get contacted by a debt collector, make a Subject Access Request while you have them on the phone for all information they hold on you. In the UK they will require a 'notice of assignment' from the original issuer of the debt and any subsequent owners, along with a signed copy of the credit agreement. If they don't have this they are toothless.

If you get issued with a county court claim form hit them immediately with a SAR for the details above and reply to the claim form stating that you do not recognise that debt, that you have asked for the details above but have yet to receive them. You can make a claim from them under Civil Procedure Rules to make them hand over the docs that their case relies on. Google is your friend on this.

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