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With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

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Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#401

Post by tracker1 »

AstralStorm wrote: post #396
tracker1 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of another one... (Ubuntu htpc) I can "shut-down" and the remote startup works, but if it actually goes into suspend, I have to hit the actual power button in the cabinet. And more often than not the audio is broken on resume from suspend and I have to completely shut down to fix it (reboot doesn't work)... this is with a core i3-5010u, which is a relatively common intel audio chipset. I agree there a…

Remote startup and wakeup is actually handled by firmware of your mainboard. (or Intel ME) Ubuntu cannot fix hardware problems most of the time. Drivers still breaking in S3 is often a result of lack of Windows driver workarounds for this case. And Ubuntu using slightly outdated kernel versions.

Considering it's Intel hardware (nuc), I'm not sure what the point is, since Intel tends to have some of the best Linux support. In any case, shouldn't linux receive a signal that it's recovered from sleep and that should allow it to re-initialize problem hardware/drivers?

I keep running it, my point was that it's not exactly rosey with Linux all of the time either.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#402

Post by WayneBro »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #393
WayneBro wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for VS - that was never really a consideration to stay on the platform for a lot of developers. By what means are you measuring these considerations? Do you have some sort of citation? As a developer, the biggest reasons for me to stay on Windows are Office, IIS, SQL Server and Visual Studio. Nothing on any other platform comes close the the usability of these. Furthermore, knowing these products really well get…

Office is also on the Mac. As for the other apps you mentioned, well, that's very subjective because I completely disagree with your assessment that nothing even comes close on any other platform. To imply that IIS and SQL Server are best of breed is ridiculous. Also, VS isn't exactly a compelling reason to stay on Windows. Last time I installed VS 2015 it sprayed 30+ GB's of files all over my SSD and installed about…

OK well reality backs up my point of view because every small, medium and large business in the world is running Windows so that they can use all of the business software that was written with VS to run on Windows, IIS and SQL Server.

We're not talking about best of breed for "the cloud" either. SQL Server and IIS are absolutely best of breed for in-house, self-hosted business apps.

And your big complaint about VS 2015 is lacking any kind of substance. Do you measure the quality of all software solely on how much disk space it takes up or is that one you just reserve for Microsoft? I run 6 or 8 instances of VS2015 at a time and my Windows machine stays lightning fast. Meanwhile, I run one instance of Xcode (all I'm allowed on OS X, on my Mac Pro) and it's dog slow.

You didn't name anything you think is better either. Says a lot.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#403

Post by supernovae »

Senji wrote: post #372
supernovae wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restarting a modern windows PC these days just takes a few seconds, its not a big problem. Updating my mac still requires restarts and hell, even ubuntu requires reboots. Not everyone ksplices their system and even ksplice warns you a reboot is the best option. If you think the resizable window is all they did with windows10, you're sorely mistaken :) Windows is moving to a shared kernel (minwin) that works on server…

Nice shilling. Nobody uses language like >"MS is moving to a quick release cadence where the patches aren't just bug fixes, but they're actually pumping out feature after feature and fixing bugs"

Since when did actually knowing what you're talking about become shilling?

MS has moved to a release cadence that pushes out new features annually in major updates (anniversary updates) - and on patch tuesdays for other updates.

These other updates can include new drivers, new firmwares, fixes to windows runtime, new windows runtime apis (they're always adding to the bluetooth stack so on and so forth), updates to browser, updates to store, updates to services/tooling.

They've been working on docker support, built in linux support (ubuntu bash is awesome), they have been optimizing how store apps are packages/compiled/distributed/updated..

if shilling means calling you out as an ignorant hater, i'll happily shill away.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#404

Post by supernovae »

WayneBro wrote: post #347
supernovae wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Derided for no good reason. Why would an app developer NOT embrace a technology that would allow them to write once and run anyware from phone to tablet to desktop to tv and hololens? Most of these people are projecting their perceived issues with the platform, not the reality thereof. Steam still runs great on Windows 10 and Windows 10 is steams largest OS base already. UWP solves a lot of problems with win32.. a lo…

> ...from phone to tablet to desktop to tv and hololens... You mean the Microsoft phone, Microsoft tablet, to Microsoft desktop, Microsoft (XBOX) TV and Microsoft Hololens? Well, nobody uses Windows Phone and hardly anybody uses Windows tablets or Hololens...so that leaves XBOX and Windows desktop. I don't make games for a living, I make business apps - and no businesses are using XBOX....so there's literally no reas…

Surface sells a lot of devices.. a few billion dollars worth a year. THere are lots of tablets out there. Pretty silly to ignore them all and be willfully ignorant about it.

Sandboxing is a good thing, it protects systems from developers. It's why even on operational tooling, a lot of teams are moving to containers to "sandbox" apps through cgroups and contain them in a re-usable fashion.

A lot of win32 apps are even being packaged for the store so they too are sandboxed having the luxury of knowing what state your app is in at all times is an awesome thing thing to developers that care about knowing that state.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#405

Post by supernovae »

rasz_pl wrote: post #332
supernovae wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Derided for no good reason. Why would an app developer NOT embrace a technology that would allow them to write once and run anyware from phone to tablet to desktop to tv and hololens? Most of these people are projecting their perceived issues with the platform, not the reality thereof. Steam still runs great on Windows 10 and Windows 10 is steams largest OS base already. UWP solves a lot of problems with win32.. a lo…

>write once and run anywhere so you would expect your apps to _play for sure_? Gee I wonder why developers are worried about it.

wut?

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#406

Post by WayneBro »

supernovae wrote: post #404
WayneBro wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...from phone to tablet to desktop to tv and hololens... You mean the Microsoft phone, Microsoft tablet, to Microsoft desktop, Microsoft (XBOX) TV and Microsoft Hololens? Well, nobody uses Windows Phone and hardly anybody uses Windows tablets or Hololens...so that leaves XBOX and Windows desktop. I don't make games for a living, I make business apps - and no businesses are using XBOX....so there's literally no reas…

Surface sells a lot of devices.. a few billion dollars worth a year. THere are lots of tablets out there. Pretty silly to ignore them all and be willfully ignorant about it. Sandboxing is a good thing, it protects systems from developers. It's why even on operational tooling, a lot of teams are moving to containers to "sandbox" apps through cgroups and contain them in a re-usable fashion. A lot of win32 apps are even…

I own multiple Windows tablets, so I'm certainly not being willfully ignorant.

You're being willfully ignorant that A) anybody is buying them to use UWP apps. They're not. Microsoft's app store isn't doing shit compared to Apple's or Google's. And B) that the sales numbers are anything to cheer about. They're not. Last quarter Apple did 7 billion dollars in iPads vs Microsoft's 1 billion in Surface.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#407

Post by pritambaral »

tracker1 wrote: post #401
AstralStorm wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote startup and wakeup is actually handled by firmware of your mainboard. (or Intel ME) Ubuntu cannot fix hardware problems most of the time. Drivers still breaking in S3 is often a result of lack of Windows driver workarounds for this case. And Ubuntu using slightly outdated kernel versions.

Considering it's Intel hardware (nuc), I'm not sure what the point is, since Intel tends to have some of the best Linux support. In any case, shouldn't linux receive a signal that it's recovered from sleep and that should allow it to re-initialize problem hardware/drivers? I keep running it, my point was that it's not exactly rosey with Linux all of the time either.

I work with hardware devs who work with Intel NUCs professionally (I do software). The NUCs have some really crazy firmware/hardware bugs. In fact, just yesterday I had to suggest to them to get the OS (Linux) to power cycle a hung hardware, and they said "Yeah ... the PMIC doesn't shut off power to that bus, the only way is to shut down the entire system. We asked Intel, that's what they said."

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#408

Post by pritambaral »

brokenmachine wrote: post #299
Osiris wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was running Ubuntu 14.04 on a small PC with XBMC and proprietary Nvidia drivers. The standard `apt-get update` would never rebuild the nvidia drivers so inevitably on reboot, X couldn't start and I had to figure out why, then rebuild the nvidia drivers manually, and try again. I'm much more scared of Ubuntu aptitude updates than I am of Microsoft updates.

I've had the exact same problem every time with Nvidia drivers when updating ubuntu. Despite this, it's not too hard to fix, and I'm much more scared of forced Microsoft OS updates though. Win7 will be my last Microsoft OS. The way they've been trying to trick people into updating is disgusting.

Even Win7 has gotten a lot of privacy killing updates silently.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#409

Post by pritambaral »

dredmorbius wrote: post #239
native wrote: post #25

Not shocking. I'm writing this out of my Ubuntu partition and I'm running Windows 10, forced down my throat to begin with, and it just does what it wants when it wants to. I've had times when I've gone for a break and my laptop has rebooted and installing some updates I wasn't even aware of. And I'm running Windows out of sheer necessity for the time being because I need Illustrator, Photoshop, etc.. But Microsoft ha…

VM with CoW and no commits. Reboot to your known good session, always.

Until the known good session does a small check over the internet and re-downloads and force reboots.

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft put in code in Win10 that silently waits for an external condition (say, an HTTP response) such that the system seems "good" until then, and upon the condition renders your system unusable (at least in the way you want it).

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#410

Post by pritambaral »

supernovae wrote: post #307
kminehart wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? That's something about Windows that I hate; having to restart for an update. Microsoft, with it's endless supply of money, is somehow completely incapable of live OS updates? Hell, Linux has live updates; I don't even have to restart to update my kernel! I would expect Microsoft to somehow take this existing technology, cater it to their system and call it a brand new feature like they did with the resizable c…

Restarting a modern windows PC these days just takes a few seconds, its not a big problem. Updating my mac still requires restarts and hell, even ubuntu requires reboots. Not everyone ksplices their system and even ksplice warns you a reboot is the best option. If you think the resizable window is all they did with windows10, you're sorely mistaken :) Windows is moving to a shared kernel (minwin) that works on server…

> Restarting a modern windows PC these days just takes a few seconds, its not a big problem

> It takes my surface pro 4 about 3 seconds to go from off to logged in using my face

And what proportion of Windows users in the world have SSDs, latest-gen Intel processors, and Intel RealSense cameras?

And even being okay with the time it takes to reboot, it is not okay to have all of one's work suddenly interrupted by an insolent piece of software (that is supposed to be working for the user).

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