With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy • Hacker News Board

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#301

Post by sudojudo » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:05 AM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #289

sudojudo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running Linux on all of my home machines for many years, including an HTPC, and I've yet to have an update break anything. Should we trust your anecdote, because it has more words, or mine, because it mentions more than one computer?

Really? Anything? It's not that I don't believe Linux is that reliable. I use it daily. I don't believe any software is that reliable. Maybe you're not using it?

My point was that anecdotes are pretty useless. Some installations run brilliantly, others are a huge pain. After all, we're not talking about a single distro on identical hardware.

To answer your questions- Linux is my primary OS, at work and at home. I don't recall every single issue, especially way-back, but traditionally, I create problems by doing something stupid.

Maybe I'm just lucky with updates, but I stick to popular distros, and I specifically seek out Linux-friendly hardware. Others surely have a different experience. It just felt like OP was painting with too broad a stroke; their statement was valid in 2003, but not so much these days.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#302

Post by brokenmachine » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:34 AM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #242

ben_jones wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the game Overwatch doesn't have an OSX port so I have windows 10 setup as a dual-boot option. It seems that Microsoft has correctly deduced that users don't really give a fuck. They'll throw a hissy fit, they'll make all sorts of blog posts, but at the end of the day the majority are still staring at a windows 10 installation screen and dealing with it.

Once you stop playing games (it happens eventually for many of us), your need to have Windows around will drop considerably. Are there any killer apps other than games to have Windows around @home?

Unfortunately I need to stay with Windows for the moment only for Ableton Live, which is IMO the best Pro Audio/Music creation tool. I can't run it in a VM because only basic sound features work in a VM (I'm using a PCI soundcard, actually thinking about it now, maybe USB3 soundcards could work well in a VM?).

Also Photoshop is pretty much the gold standard for image editing, but I could be happy running that in a VM.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#303

Post by Endy » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:40 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #283

makomk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But libinput is a vital part of the new, improved Wayland future, so obviously it must be better. Because of this development of the existing touchpad driver has even been dropped in favour of it.

You'll be receiving the invoice for my next refill of blood-pressure medication. I swear to fucking god Linux has lost the beat.

It never found the beat for the needs of John Q. End-User

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#304

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:42 AM UTC

curt15 wrote: post #179

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new Microsoft picked up a lot of habits from Google and other newer companies. 1. Open sourcing crud. 2. Taking away your rights and violating your privacy. We need to communicate clearly to Microsoft what types of new behavior are good, and what types of new behavior are bad. It's just like raising a child. :)

It's probably no coincidence that they pulled out of the EU investigations of Google after starting it. They probably see the financial upside in becoming more like Google.

Realistically, it was practical to get the goodwill of saying they were stepping out, because all the cases were far enough along. The EU's going to pursue it with or without Microsoft's present interest. So they get better PR by saying "oh, yeah, we're no longer doing this".

Basically, Mission Accomplished for Microsoft.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#305

Post by supernovae » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:42 AM UTC

CommanderData wrote: post #247

jakebasile wrote: post #17

I upgraded willingly so the deceptive upgrade practices, while deplorable, didn't really affect me. What does affect me is that Microsoft refuses to let me control my computer. - If you turn off Windows Defender Real Time Protection it explicitly tells you "You can turn this off, but if it's off for a while we'll turn it back on". It turns itself on upon next reboot, it seems. - You can't turn off Windows Update. It…

Seeing more negative news about Win 10 on HN interests me. HN, what I regard, a big developer news site - I wonder if Microsoft cares. I am sure and probably stating the obvious here. Developers are a group Microsoft does care about - devs eventually drives some of the cogs in their grand scheme. Making noise here will get their attention, more than making noise on some consumer forum.

Most of it seems completely misguided if you ask me. I'm no fan of all the tracking stuff, but lets be real. Everyone in here with an iPhone or an Android phone has the same experience yet i don't see them complaining that their iphone/android device updates itself, has tracking info and locks them into stores and such. It only seems unfair when MS does it.

I remember the day when people used to be enthusiastic about their computer and saw updates not just as things getting in the way. For example, the recent win10 update for anniversary update. Are people really bitching their finally getting a native browser with extensions that is fast and has gesture/touch capability second to none on the tablet form facter? are people really pissed they're getting linux subsystem with Ubuntu 14.04 built in? are people really pissed that the store experience has improved drastically that the apps you buy work on xbox, pc, phone, tablet and hololens?

I don't get it. Groove is awesome. Its updated biweekly now and the developers are on twitter accepting feedback. OneDrive works well.. the nagging of onedrive can be uninstalled by not using the desktop app..

i won't go into every detail, but the experience of windows 10 is only as good as you make it out to be. I think most people are just largely misguided at what MS is trying to achieve and if they honestly don't like it, they don't have to buy it.

BTW, the upgrade stuff was pretty hoaky too but again, i for the life of me can't find a reason not to upgrade if the upgrade was offered. It's like having an ios device and swearing to stay on iOS 8 just because or having a linux PC and sticking to debian 6 just because.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#306

Post by supernovae » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:45 AM UTC

jakebasile wrote: post #108

graycat wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is UWP?

Universal Windows Platform [1], which has been derided by some prominent game developers [2]. [1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/get-started/wha... [2]: http://www.pcgamer.com/epic-ceo-tim-sweeney-pummels-microsof...

Derided for no good reason.

Why would an app developer NOT embrace a technology that would allow them to write once and run anyware from phone to tablet to desktop to tv and hololens?

Most of these people are projecting their perceived issues with the platform, not the reality thereof.

Steam still runs great on Windows 10 and Windows 10 is steams largest OS base already.

UWP solves a lot of problems with win32.. a lot. It was premature in windows 8 but has matured well with anniversary update. (being sandboxed is probably the best consumer feature ever..)

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#307

Post by supernovae » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:54 AM UTC

kminehart wrote: post #252

mitm2mitm wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it does not matter what other people are doing. I'm paying for this software so I want control (over my own hardware). Mobile is a lost cause but I literally can't afford to fight my desktop OS. It must work and be reliable. Maybe I would accept forced security updates if they allowed live updates. Having to restart your computer is awful. But that's not even the worse problem. It reset settings, install things y…

Right? That's something about Windows that I hate; having to restart for an update. Microsoft, with it's endless supply of money, is somehow completely incapable of live OS updates? Hell, Linux has live updates; I don't even have to restart to update my kernel! I would expect Microsoft to somehow take this existing technology, cater it to their system and call it a brand new feature like they did with the resizable c…

Restarting a modern windows PC these days just takes a few seconds, its not a big problem. Updating my mac still requires restarts and hell, even ubuntu requires reboots. Not everyone ksplices their system and even ksplice warns you a reboot is the best option.

If you think the resizable window is all they did with windows10, you're sorely mistaken :) Windows is moving to a shared kernel (minwin) that works on servers, pcs, desktops, phones, consoles and hololens. If you write an app for UWP it can be installed on all of these devices and has interfaces to operate natively on them. UWP is sandboxed too so its more secure than Win32.

MS is moving to a quick release cadence where the patches aren't just bug fixes, but they're actually pumping out feature after feature and fixing bugs / requests submitted through the insider program.

They're adding / fixing html issues in edge, plugins for edge, increasing features to UWP apis, adding support for devices/cpus, streamlining gaming support.

It takes my surface pro 4 about 3 seconds to go from off to logged in using my face. Each update has improved the experience from what was "Cool" but barely worked to now just working all the time and now supporting biometric authentication for web apps and other features - because they have updated and patched the OS to integrate such.

anywho.. i love computers.. i run windows, i'm typing this on my macbook and i'm playking pokemon on my iphone and my day job is running thousands of centos and ubuntu workstations.

tired of this misguided rage and jumping to assumptions. we as a community should be better than this.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#308

Post by Endy » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 4:57 AM UTC

hendersoon wrote: post #191

dbg31415 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the latest update... many of my settings for existing features were changed. My desktop background was reset to default, my choice of browser was switched back to Edge, and my taskbar icons were reset... "Oh, cool, I was wondering where I put Edge... now I'm so happy it's back!" Wait, that's not what I said at all. I assume all the privacy settings I tried to change to be in my favor were reset as well, and ther…

Benefits of Win10 AU are: 1) Linux on windows runtime beta (commonly called bash shell, but it's much more) 2) dark theme 3) extensions in the Edge browser 4) Vastly improved stylus support 5) Slightly changed start menu 6) Improved action center, if you use UWP apps

1 is the reason I'll never use Win10. I don't trust Linux, even in a VM. Too many people have access and I am forced to assume it's insecure by default. My assumption will never change.

2 is inconsequential. I can use a "dark theme" in Win7; all I did was disable Aero and set up my desktop the same way I had since Win95.

3 Firefox

4 Okay, good reason.

5 The Win10 (actually, WinVista+) start menu is pointless.

6 In the word of the Spartans: "If".

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#309

Post by supernovae » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 5:00 AM UTC

laktak wrote: post #210

Privacy issues aside, I can't actually trust Windows 10. It shut down twice on me while I was working (to install a mandatory security patch). This OS treats its users like kids who wouldn't know better.

If you're a computer "Enthusiast" most of the time you know what's coming (sites like winbeta and neowin post the news) or you would have known how to set the restart time, accept/reject the action center notifications or gracefully finished work to reboot because rebooting in windows only takes about 5 seconds these days.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#310

Post by brokenmachine » Thu, Aug 18, 2016, 5:11 AM UTC

CommanderData wrote: post #247

jakebasile wrote: post #17

I upgraded willingly so the deceptive upgrade practices, while deplorable, didn't really affect me. What does affect me is that Microsoft refuses to let me control my computer. - If you turn off Windows Defender Real Time Protection it explicitly tells you "You can turn this off, but if it's off for a while we'll turn it back on". It turns itself on upon next reboot, it seems. - You can't turn off Windows Update. It…

Seeing more negative news about Win 10 on HN interests me. HN, what I regard, a big developer news site - I wonder if Microsoft cares. I am sure and probably stating the obvious here. Developers are a group Microsoft does care about - devs eventually drives some of the cogs in their grand scheme. Making noise here will get their attention, more than making noise on some consumer forum.

I wish that were true, but I think MS is more interested in tricking users into being locked in to their software and selling their data than caring about power users/developers.

I think it will bite them in the ass eventually. Non-techie people will follow the recommendations of power users, and they are really doing a good job of pissing off all the power users.