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How doctors choose to die (2012)

theguardian.com

41–50 of 90 posts

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#41
I'm a little frustrated with this article, but not for the reasons in the article. The doctors were angry at their patients' family members for putting them through the suffering; but, ... that form of suffering is just where medicine is right now.

Medicine is evolving, and growing; and, it's that desire to keep living and to keep those around you living, and to improve their well-being that has, in part, grown our medical abilities to the point they are now.

It feels like some of those improvements that, right now only provide a '15% chance of survival, and include pain', will be the stepping stones for 20, 30, 80 or 90% chance of survival, with varying levels of pain, including 0.

The article seemed to suggest that the doctors didn't approve of those intermediate steps, but ... those are the steps medicine takes, aren't they?

I dunno. I respected the rest of the article. That part of it bothered me.

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#42
There's one thing they left out of the article. Yes, we are all going to get sick, and eventually die. Doctors--know the expected survival rates. Doctors do seem to end up with the right medications to really make those last days comfortable, or take the right amout and overdose properly?

Now, their patients, especially the poor, stereotyped, etc. are sent home, and when a doctor feels like they need Hospice, they give their approval.

I had a poor friend die. It was obvious he only had a few months left, but the doctor wouldn't o.k. Hospice? We went to two clinics, and a pain clinic and neither would give him the medications (Opioids and Benzodiazepines) he needed. One pain clinic(noted one of the better ones--in San Francisco) offered to cut some nerves?(I still don't know what these Blow Hards wanted to cut.)

Why didn't he get the right medications; well in the states we assume everyone is going to abuse drugs. It's just getting worse. Doctors are not taking away pain.

O.K., but once you have Hospice, everything is fine these fine? Doctors are trained in Pallitive care--if you get lucky. My experience watching my father die of liver cancer was a week of Hell. Hs last words to me before he went onto one of his last comas was "Son--when will this end?" Yea--no shit!

The nurse finally came around. She then let my sister manipulate his medications which made his discomfort even worse.(my sister thought he should spend more time with his grand kids, and she wanted him to give her more things?) There I said it. Yea, she's a piece of work.

I know this. When I am given that diagnosis of death. I used to think I would go to the bad part of town and buy smack, crack, whatnot, but as I've gotten older and I don't have the fight in me like I did in my 30's; I will probally just suffer through the agony of death like my father endured? Or, I might do what Robin Williams felt he had to do?

Robin's wife said she was glad he picked up his ipad when he walked by her. She said, Robin hadn't watched tv, nor went on the Internet for the last six months.

Robin was found in his stepson's bedroom with a belt around his neck. A towel was wrapped around the belt. I'm assuming to make the suicide more comfortable? Crude knife marks on his wrists--from a pocket knife. An ipad was found near the body with websites open to the the various side effects of the drugs he was given. I don't know all the drugs he was given, but they found a bottles of Seroquil? and a drug used to help with the neurological disorder he had.

Why did I repeat this story. Because this is how we are forced to die in the United States. I don't know why Robin committed suicide. He sounded like he was suffering for a long time, on many levels? I don't know if the prescription drugs he was taking made things worse? Either way, he shouldn't have had to die like this. I'll pass this along too. Don't think suicide is easy. I knew a guy who tried to blow his head off with a shot gun. He blew his frontal cortex off, and spent the next 30 years paralized in a rest home. He died of a lung infection. I didn't know him personally. I worked for the Cororners office at the time, and picked up hs body.

Enough, I feel sick from even writing about this gruesome stuff, but nothing changes. Doctors should treat the pain of their patients, and the government shoud not harass them.

And we need a "right to die with dignity" law like Oregon passed. They passed it a few years ago, and very few decided to use the kit. Most decided to go naturally, but it must be reassuring knowing you have an alternative? I yacked on, but it's something I think about often.

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#43

I'm a little frustrated with this article, but not for the reasons in the article. The doctors were angry at their patients' family members for putting them through the suffering; but, ... that form of suffering is just where medicine is right now. Medicine is evolving, and growing; and, it's that desire to keep living and to keep those around you living, and to improve their well-being that has, in part, grown our m…

It isn't the doctor's job to improve medicine, it is a researcher's job.

Doctors can only prescribe to you the 15% chance of survival, knowing that there's no greater benefit to medicine. They're too busy seeing patients to improve medicine.

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#44

I'm a little frustrated with this article, but not for the reasons in the article. The doctors were angry at their patients' family members for putting them through the suffering; but, ... that form of suffering is just where medicine is right now. Medicine is evolving, and growing; and, it's that desire to keep living and to keep those around you living, and to improve their well-being that has, in part, grown our m…

It isn't the doctor's job to improve medicine, it is a researcher's job. Doctors can only prescribe to you the 15% chance of survival, knowing that there's no greater benefit to medicine. They're too busy seeing patients to improve medicine.

I'm not sure this is accurate, especially in the case of cancers. Doctors were part of the studies with at least one person I know.

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#45
post #15

This is anecdotal evidence from a small (2) sample. But not all doctors die without treatment at home. Some (many?) are aware of the drugs they need to hasten their demise in a way that minimises their suffering. One doctor I discussed this with said that assisted suicide, in a very limited and measured way, isn't uncommon, if you know what to look for. As someone with a degenerative incurable condition, I'd like the…

> being alive has a 100% mortality rate. Well we assume it does but so far only about 95%

Yeah, historically it has had a 100% mortality rate but there is a significant chance that things will change. eg. uploads

http://www.inquisitr.com/1883084/mind-trip-humans-to-live-fo...

and the like

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#46
post #15

This is anecdotal evidence from a small (2) sample. But not all doctors die without treatment at home. Some (many?) are aware of the drugs they need to hasten their demise in a way that minimises their suffering. One doctor I discussed this with said that assisted suicide, in a very limited and measured way, isn't uncommon, if you know what to look for. As someone with a degenerative incurable condition, I'd like the…

Sago, I hope you've heard of Alcor cryonics? It's not guaranteed, but it's better than 0 probability.

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#47
post #15

This is anecdotal evidence from a small (2) sample. But not all doctors die without treatment at home. Some (many?) are aware of the drugs they need to hasten their demise in a way that minimises their suffering. One doctor I discussed this with said that assisted suicide, in a very limited and measured way, isn't uncommon, if you know what to look for. As someone with a degenerative incurable condition, I'd like the…

It's really hard to change perceptions about death when it requires considering one's own mortality. It is in this only that I understand the desperate quest for religion. The idea of going dark forever is terrifying to me, and considering I'm pretty much an atheist, I don't have much hope of anything else. When people ask me if I'm religious, I usually tell them I'm hopeful that I'm proven wrong. I know we all die.…

>I know our lives on a cosmic scale are infinitesimal.

I like to think of each consciousness as a prime number, an inevitable pattern if you write out every possibility. Our brains are contained within some 3 dimensional finite configuration of atoms, and in a large enough scale it will be repeated again. Even its exact position when you read this message.

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#48
post #15

This is anecdotal evidence from a small (2) sample. But not all doctors die without treatment at home. Some (many?) are aware of the drugs they need to hasten their demise in a way that minimises their suffering. One doctor I discussed this with said that assisted suicide, in a very limited and measured way, isn't uncommon, if you know what to look for. As someone with a degenerative incurable condition, I'd like the…

It's really hard to change perceptions about death when it requires considering one's own mortality. It is in this only that I understand the desperate quest for religion. The idea of going dark forever is terrifying to me, and considering I'm pretty much an atheist, I don't have much hope of anything else. When people ask me if I'm religious, I usually tell them I'm hopeful that I'm proven wrong. I know we all die.…

[deleted]

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this makes accepting death easier, the good news is the near-death experience. While I certainly don't intend to convince you that it's an afterlife experience (because no one knows quite what they are) it is typically positive and very powerful. Subjectively, it's an intense spiritual experience that seems to be unmatched by most things in life. As for whether it's entrance into an afterlife or the shutdown seque…

The two main disagreements I have with this are, one that I can't put into words very clearly and will come back to, and my generally repetitive comment on these issues that you - MichaelOChurch2015 - weren't born, you were made by your life experiences. A child was born, a nearly blank slate, and formed into 'you' by experiences. The idea that you could have been born "somewhere else" or "to someone else" or "in ano…

[deleted]

Re: How doctors choose to die (2012)

#50
This reminded me of an article I've read a long time ago which had a really strong impact on me. I've just found it by googling a couple of words that were still in my head after all these years.

Here it is (probably not where I originally read it): http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21643646/ns/health-behavior/t/what...

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