Earlier quoted context omitted.
From TFA: >He said he would be interested in forking the repo and continuing development. That would have been fine until the guy next to him… began making sexual forking jokes The guy inserted his forking double innuendos in a conversation two other persons were having. Do you seriously think he'd do that if one of those weren't a female? (Also, forking jokes? Is that 1995 or what)
However that was not the guy she twit shamed as far as I can gather from her not very organized writeup.
Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
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Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#42The "jokes" (which are lame) weren't directed at her from what I can gather. The OP publicly lynched them, and one guy was fired for it. What a crap situation all over :( I dont understand the offensiveness of what they said, directed at themselves, just being idiots. Christ, that could happen to me. Is fear of reprisal better than actual understanding?
Actually it seems the jokes were fired solely because she was in the earshot. EDIT: downvoting, seriously? I just go by her account in the linked article, which I hope everyone commenting took their time to read as well. Her argument is clear and isn't anywhere as unfounded as skimming through the comments here would make you think. She of course could be making things up, which neither me, nor anything else who were…
Her article is worded in such a way as that it can be construed as being directed at her, but it is never outright said, nor does the guy who got fired suggest that that was the case (of course, he does have a horse in the race; however, he was very honest and apologetic in his response).
It smells disingenuous to me.
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#43This whole thing was a massive failure on all sides. It was a social failure by the guys who kept on making annoying and unfunny jokes (I think it actually starts with this obnoxious "thank me! thank me!" stuff). It was a total benevolence failure on part of the author who seems exceedingly gleeful about her well-calculated coup. It's a failure of society in general to think that "sexualized" environments somehow att…
The "we could just code in peace" is fine up until something actually happens (such as people making inappropriate comments) at which point people have to make up their mind what to do about it. Turning the other cheek has, to date, been a remarkably ineffective technique.
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#44I am missing something here. I get that someone could be offended by these comments, but what does it have to do with being a woman? I know females who would giggle at such jokes and males who would feel uncomfortable. I feel like the person here being the most sexist is the author, for insinuating that there's something inherent in her gender that makes "forking" jokes offensive to her. I would welcome an explanatio…
The latter makes the environment hostile to women. This is not specific to women. You can apply this to minorities (of any shape or form) as well.
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#45I'm sorry, but I read this as a total overreaction on her behalf. And, there's a massive dose of hypocrisy here, especially given the following tweets that she sent, whilst at PyCon: @skwashd you should put something in your pants next time... like a bunch of socks inside one...large...sock. TSA agent faint [1] How is this not a massive double standard? Is this not dripping with innuendo? Would it have been acceptabl…
Did you read the conversation around that first tweet? It in no way degrades anyone, with the possible exception of TSA agents.
The one "about autism" is a comparison in which someone is compare to someone autistic because they're good at something.
It seems to me that you've basically gone looking for stuff to beat her up with and still come up with a bunch of stuff that by your own admission isn't offensive.
Do you seriously think those are comparable things?
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#46"What many of you don’t know is that wasn’t the first time that day I had to address this issue around harassment and gender." A few guys making idiotic jokes amongst themselves about forking and dongle size is now considered harassment? I can understand they were probably being annoying, but I'm having trouble seeing this as harassment.
The pycon people are aiming to build a conference where women don't have to deal with this stuff at all. It's a lofty goal, and I appreciate them for setting a high standard. Excusing little comments creates a culture where women have to put up with innuendo throughout the conference. I saw these people removed from the room, and it was done quite appropriately. (I did not hear anything directly.)
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#47Given that it would be trivial to turn around and ask them not to offend, I fail to see the benefit in publicly going after these guys after the fact. Mob justice doesn't allow the other party the ability to alter their behaviour (we don't know if asking would have worked) nor does it allow the other party to tell their side of the story. In addition, it has a habit of causing both sides to dig their heels in and oft…
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#48This whole thing was a massive failure on all sides. It was a social failure by the guys who kept on making annoying and unfunny jokes (I think it actually starts with this obnoxious "thank me! thank me!" stuff). It was a total benevolence failure on part of the author who seems exceedingly gleeful about her well-calculated coup. It's a failure of society in general to think that "sexualized" environments somehow att…
I don't want to get into an argument about it because I think you're on the right side of things but the one thing I would say about your assessment is that I think you need to think about how benevolent someone should be in the face of not just a single instance of something happening but continually being subject to this stuff on an on-going basis. The "we could just code in peace" is fine up until something actual…
It's true that I have never been to an American tech event and I cede that I can't really know how endemic threatening male group behavior has become in these settings. However, the example at hand does not strike me as such an instance. It may well be the straw that broke the camel's back in the author's case, but on its own this affair just leaves everyone involved in a very bad light.
My instinct is to look at the more basic failures that make situations like these possible, and I listed a few that struck me off the top of my head.
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#49None of the jokes were remotely funny to me, and none of them were acceptable to me. I would have called them out. But many, most even, women don't feel safe or empowered enough to call these out, and the majority of the posts on this page speak as to why.
It has to stop.
I understand that the HN community has a large number of younger people, and understanding appropriate behaviour is one of those things we need to learn over time. The older people should be helping though.
We also have a large (ok vast) number of people who find social situations awkward, and perhaps make the wrong choices in these events.
Welcome to the entire country of New Zealand, where I am from and live. (And the UK is the same for that matter.) Over here we find every single social situation awkward. We don't tell each other our names, we are intimidated by everybody and we think it is embarrassing to speak in crowds. As a society we rely far too heavily on alcohol to loosen our social behaviour to, and sadly then well beyond, acceptable levels.
There are hacks to deal with these situations.
One, as I stated, is alcohol. That's almost certainly going to lead to trouble at a work conference, and certainly as you age society expects you to leave earlier and partake in less. But it does work at the after-parties, and many deals are struck under the influence. But not everyone enjoys the booze-fests, so smart conferences offer alternative gatherings.
Secondly, there are the codes of behaviour. That means understanding what sorts of statements are unacceptable and staying away from them. We never have to talk about not using the racist "N" word on HN, and similarly we should be at a place where it's alarmingly obvious that we never have to talk about not using sexist jokes and misogynist behaviour. It's a code - we need to live with it.
Thirdly we can call this out individually, and support those who do. This blog poster did, and the conference response was superb. A large group of us in New Zealand decided, at an unconference, to do so as well. And within 5 minutes of me sitting down at the next conference, organised by a group I help govern, I was the one loudly interjecting at some very poor MC choices. Since then a large number of the people in the room, male and female, have thanked me for that intervention, making it easier next time.
We need to realise that as founders, contractors, consultants, funders and employees that everything we write here is exposed to be read by not just YC, but also other people who can do business with us. Those words will last forever.
We can do this. We must.
Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences
#50I'm sorry, but I read this as a total overreaction on her behalf. And, there's a massive dose of hypocrisy here, especially given the following tweets that she sent, whilst at PyCon: @skwashd you should put something in your pants next time... like a bunch of socks inside one...large...sock. TSA agent faint [1] How is this not a massive double standard? Is this not dripping with innuendo? Would it have been acceptabl…
It isn't hypocrisy either.
You appear to have confused the difference between active and passive involvement in a conversation.
The tweets were an active response. The problem was directing a "suggestive" / "lewd" conversation at a 3rd Party with no active relationship.
As a representative of a company (their name is on your badge), unless you have a personal and independent connection with someone, everything you say "represents the organization". And, even if you have a personal connection, you can still get in trouble.