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It is time to build a new internet

mrmarket.bearblog.dev

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Re: It is time to build a new internet

#41

Post by jimmaswell »

tomrod wrote: post #32
JeremieDecoop wrote: post #6

It's the most dumb article I have ever seen on Hackernews with respect to the writer who has knowledge about protocols and concepts. No TCP/IP means no normal internet routing. → You would need a totally new way for machines to find and send data to each other. Bots are not tied to HTTP/HTML forever, people can write new bots for the new protocol, including by the use of GUI automation (digital or with plotters that…

[flagged]

I really feel like accusing comments of being made by AI, especially with as little evidence as using an arrow, should be discouraged in the guidelines. It's become tediously common despite already falling under numerous more general items in that list.

Re: It is time to build a new internet

#42

Post by krapp »

ethanplant wrote: post #26
rfarley04 wrote: post #18

The human.json protocol is worth checking out as a proxy for the whole "more human internet" conversation. Not perfect but interesting! https://codeberg.org/robida/human.json

`human.json` is a neat idea and I’ve been watching it closely. I’m even debating dropping one on my own site. That being said, the fact that the obvious attack vector goes completely unaddressed gives me pause.

what obvious attack vector? It's just a list of urls and dates, and the dates don't even really mean anything.

It would be better if it acted like a vouch tree so you could create a web of trust but there's no enforcement mechanism so I don't even know how that would work.

Re: It is time to build a new internet

#43

Post by han1 »

tomrod wrote: post #29
kelseyfrog wrote: post #14

> What we basically need is a completely new protocol stack that is not interoperable with TCP/IP. You cannot solve social problems using technical solutions. Someone would simply build a bridge and siphon data out or in. Interoperability is one of those low-hanging fruits that, once solved, ruins its value.

You can solve a ton of social problems with technical solutions. 100 different, easy to integrate internets federated across a number of different communication technologies and protocols is actually very hard to regulate and capture. Sure, you won't have another Facebook, but we children of the 70s, 80s,and 90s would ser value in that.

[flagged]

Re: It is time to build a new internet

#46

Post by ian_j_butler »

avaer wrote: post #25

If such a thing ever becomes big enough that money can be made, it will rot, and orders of magnitude faster than the current internet did. More than making the new stack non-interoperable with existing tech, you would have to make it non-interoperable with existing money. And then you're talking an even bigger revolution than a new internet. There's a kernel of interesting ideas here, but I don't think it pays due en…

> you would have to make it non-interoperable with existing money.

Why? Just eliminate surveillance.. no tracking is no money. There's another theory that maybe no money is no content, but that's sort of what tfa (and other stuff on HN lately) is actually talking about. Lots of people who would make content or just conversation for free are still relying on some sense of community which is under attack everywhere if not already destroyed. Community means organic discovery, organic participation, and some reasonable expectation of continuity / non-enshittification that's actually independent of corporate interests or sponsorship.

Re: It is time to build a new internet

#47

Post by lanfeust6 »

singingtoday wrote: post #15
JeremieDecoop wrote: post #6

It's the most dumb article I have ever seen on Hackernews with respect to the writer who has knowledge about protocols and concepts. No TCP/IP means no normal internet routing. → You would need a totally new way for machines to find and send data to each other. Bots are not tied to HTTP/HTML forever, people can write new bots for the new protocol, including by the use of GUI automation (digital or with plotters that…

That seems harsh. Yes there's technical challenges, but the current iteration of the clearnet is on life support from a humanistic perspective. And, projects of similar conceptual scope already been accomplished. There exists more than one application layer network built on top of the current Internet. If you want to criticize the idea I encourage you to; but please don't just shoot down and insult on hn.

> If you want to criticize the idea I encourage you

They just did. That isn't "just" shooting down.

Re: It is time to build a new internet

#49

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

tomrod wrote: post #29
kelseyfrog wrote: post #14

> What we basically need is a completely new protocol stack that is not interoperable with TCP/IP. You cannot solve social problems using technical solutions. Someone would simply build a bridge and siphon data out or in. Interoperability is one of those low-hanging fruits that, once solved, ruins its value.

You can solve a ton of social problems with technical solutions. 100 different, easy to integrate internets federated across a number of different communication technologies and protocols is actually very hard to regulate and capture. Sure, you won't have another Facebook, but we children of the 70s, 80s,and 90s would ser value in that.

When I was but a youngster, the "internet" part of "internet protocol" was precisely that.

When I was a novice programmer, we used to move packets between DECnet, IP and X.500 networks all the time.

When I didn't know much about computers, networks were federated by default.

The thing is, time went by and we realized that IP was just better than all the others, and everybody started using it for everything.

And if you're making the claim that the root of problems like walled gardens and enshittification is the internet protocol ... get outa here.

Re: It is time to build a new internet

#50

Post by kettlecorn »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #14

> What we basically need is a completely new protocol stack that is not interoperable with TCP/IP. You cannot solve social problems using technical solutions. Someone would simply build a bridge and siphon data out or in. Interoperability is one of those low-hanging fruits that, once solved, ruins its value.

I have wondered if a pseudo-social / pseudo-technical solution of some sort of trust graph could help.

Like you would say who you think is credible and human. An algorithm would evaluate trust on your behalf and it would look to the people you trust, and then who they trust, and so on and assign scores to people. Distrust, or even other observations, could percolate in a similar way.

Then on social networks, or some sort of small-web, new users would need to find other people to vouch for them to establish trust. When viewing websites or social media posts the trust score of users could be shown alongside content, and used to filter feeds / visibility. A troll or bot could rather rapidly get picked up by a network of distrust so they could be filtered out quickly.

The algorithms and details of such a thing are fuzzy to me, and I think a lot of care and thought would be needed to try to ensure it doesn't collapse under subtle flaws with time.

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