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Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

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Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#41

Post by lucsky »

linotype wrote: post #3

Canada should take up the issue with Trump, not with Americans. I didn’t vote for Trump. I know only a handful of people that did. I highly doubt most of the people attending GDC did. No need to be a fair weather friend, in four years Trump will be gone and normalcy will be restored.

> ...in four years Trump will be gone and normalcy will be restored

Tell me you haven't been paying attention to what's going on in Trumpistan without telling me you haven't been paying attention to what's going on in Trumpistan.

Unbelievable.

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#42

Post by text0404 »

YZF wrote: post #37
text0404 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these incidents - among an escalating number of other, similar incidents - are a grave betrayal of the US’ purported values, especially when it claims to be morally better than "other countries" who routinely violate the rights of people who aren't breaking any laws (in one case, literal torture techniques were used on a permanent resident of the US). furthermore, the point is to call these things out as soon as they…

I disagree. What we have here is that random incidents that happen all the time are seized on to make a political point. From that linked article: " The US CBP denied the allegations, with assistant commissioner of public affairs Hilton Beckham telling Newsweek: “These claims are blatantly false with respect to CBP.” " There is no "escalating number" of similar incidents. If there are then show me the numbers. It's n…

and i disagree with you. once again, these are facts and numbers - it's not enough to wait until the situation becomes so dire that we no longer have the ability to legally, meaningfully respond and reverse our circumstances. it's also disingenuous (at best) to downplay these violations of rights ("this happens all the time", "they gave him a shower", etc) - this is the normalization of abuse of power. whenever these violations/abuses have happened they've been wrong, and we should always call them out as wrong and act to prevent them from happening again.

furthermore, if you only care about statistics then abuses of vulnerable populations must be acceptable unless they hit some threshold of statistical significance. you can excuse horrific acts based on the idea that a minority is only a small percentage of the total population or that their abuse is only a small percentage of total abuse, as you're doing here. that's the point of creating a social system which protects everyone - that people who comprise a minority are not singled out and abused. murderers and serial killers also target relatively small percentages of the population, but we don't allow them to roam freely.

here is the border czar saying he doesn't care about court orders: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/donald-trump-se...

here is a Brown professor who was deported despite a court order: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doctor-brown-university-dep...

when the government no longer cares about its own values, laws, and separation of powers, we no longer have a government of the people. this is a an existential issue, not a "wait and see" situation.

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#44

Post by linotype »

StayTrue wrote: post #31
linotype wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife was threatened with not being allowed into the country due to a DUI (in the US) from five years ago. We had to pay a $250 fee to spend three days in Victoria.

Do you feel an injustice has been perpetrated against you? The Canadian attitude towards admission vis a vis DUI convictions predates the first Trump administration by a lot. OTOH Victoria schoolchildren used to do cross border field trips. They ended the practice during the Trump Muslim ban to avoid trauma to kids.

And this predated the Trump administration. Just seems hypocritical that other countries are allowed to police their border crossing but the US isn’t.

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#45

Post by YZF »

text0404 wrote: post #42
YZF wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. What we have here is that random incidents that happen all the time are seized on to make a political point. From that linked article: " The US CBP denied the allegations, with assistant commissioner of public affairs Hilton Beckham telling Newsweek: “These claims are blatantly false with respect to CBP.” " There is no "escalating number" of similar incidents. If there are then show me the numbers. It's n…

and i disagree with you. once again, these are facts and numbers - it's not enough to wait until the situation becomes so dire that we no longer have the ability to legally, meaningfully respond and reverse our circumstances. it's also disingenuous (at best) to downplay these violations of rights ("this happens all the time", "they gave him a shower", etc) - this is the normalization of abuse of power. whenever these…

I agree with you that we should not normalize abuse. It's fine and required that we call these things out. I'm with you on that one.

Where I'm not with you is on the mass hysteria that the world is ending and the grasping on what are anecdotes to fuel a political struggle. The American left has collectively lost their minds it seems and they want to turn their prediction that this is the end of democracy in the US into a prophecy that fulfills itself.

The latest on the Brown professor is that the judge accepted that the deportation happened before his order could reach the border agents. The CBP also responded they would not violate a judge's order. So all seems at it should be. If judge's orders are violated there are mechanisms to deal with that such as holding those people in contempt and sending them to jail. It's true that there could be a constitutional crisis if e.g. the president pardons those people but it seems we're not there yet.

There is a fine line here between order and anarchy. Let's stay on the order side. A few cases don't prove anything. We are seeing a policy shift which is what this administration said it would shift if it got into office. For the most part this policy is under their control and people knowingly voted for that. Democracy means accepting that even if it differs from what you think. We are seeing ever increasing polarization which on its own is going to lead to the destruction of democracy. This should be more worrying.

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#46

Post by YZF »

locopati wrote: post #39
YZF wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of your points have I ignored exactly? You're ignoring my point which is that similar things happen all over the world all the time and without any comparative data they are just anecdotes. Is the Trump administration applying a different policy? Absolutely. Does that make the US materially less safe for most of us? Open question. Almost certainly not. So yes, we're not going to have a productive discussion whe…

what they're doing at the border now, they'll do to citizens within the country later. so, yes, this makes the US materially less safe.

Maybe yes maybe no. We had some of this in the previous Trump presidency and despite the fear mongering we got over it. The US has plenty of checks and balances it seems (I'm not American so easy for me to say ;) ). We also had democratic governments that didn't make any material changes to what are questionable immigration practices or in some cases made things worse.

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#47

Post by BLKNSLVR »

linotype wrote: post #44
StayTrue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel an injustice has been perpetrated against you? The Canadian attitude towards admission vis a vis DUI convictions predates the first Trump administration by a lot. OTOH Victoria schoolchildren used to do cross border field trips. They ended the practice during the Trump Muslim ban to avoid trauma to kids.

And this predated the Trump administration. Just seems hypocritical that other countries are allowed to police their border crossing but the US isn’t.

I doubt anyone here is saying that.

It's that the rhetoric coming from Trump which, through significant threats to the on-going employment of anyone deemed to be not enthusiastically complying with these daily-updated mandates, increases the likelihood of un-justified "bad thing" happening upon attempting to cross the border to the US.

Basically, the current regime makes it unpredictable, which increases risk. Increased risk = decreased likelihood of related action.

I'm not sure how far off topic we've gone, but "Canadian Devs backing out of attending GDC" would also have a protest aspect to it due to DJT's belligerence towards Canada.

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#48

Post by [deleted] »

jszymborski wrote: post #8
linotype wrote: post #3

Canada should take up the issue with Trump, not with Americans. I didn’t vote for Trump. I know only a handful of people that did. I highly doubt most of the people attending GDC did. No need to be a fair weather friend, in four years Trump will be gone and normalcy will be restored.

I like imagining this clever retort oozing from the lips of someone who has had their birthday invitation refused after punching their 8 year old school mate in the stomach.

[deleted]

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#49

Post by linotype »

pseudalopex wrote: post #38
linotype wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I guess I’ll just have to deal with it. This site already was pretty anti-US, now it’s just ramped up. Maybe it’s time to stop reading the comments. Like there’s nothing I can do about Trump, I only have one vote in California.

> This site already was pretty anti-US No.

Profound.

Re: Canadian Devs Are Backing Out of Attending GDC

#50

Post by happytoexplain »

linotype wrote: post #3

Canada should take up the issue with Trump, not with Americans. I didn’t vote for Trump. I know only a handful of people that did. I highly doubt most of the people attending GDC did. No need to be a fair weather friend, in four years Trump will be gone and normalcy will be restored.

The "weather" in fair-weather friend refers to externalities, not to the behavior of your friend.
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