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Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

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Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#41
post #15

I don't understand the hate for TSA. Sure, it can be better. But does anyone dare board a plane when none of the passengers have been screened?

If said plane is the only unscreened flight out of Tel-Aviv? Maybe I'd have some reservations. But if all flights were completely unscreened? It wouldn't change what or when I fly. I already board unscreened trains and busses quite often.

With that username, I’m not sure I’d want to join you :P

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#42

I'm not convinced the TSA is needed to stop terrorism, but it probably helps a good deal with protecting passengers from ordinary psychotic Americans, of which there seem to be a significant increase over the last 20 or so years.

I've watched enough YouTube videos, I don't think it's working.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#43

I wish they would just staff adequately! I'll take off my shoes, get scanned, listen to contradictory instructions, suffer "random" pat downs, whatever. Just have enough agents checking IDs and keeping scanning lines open so that the queue doesn't get to be 45mins long!

Scope, time, and cost (staffing level) - the triple constraint.

In my opinion it's far better to cut down scope than to add cost.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#44
post #5

We can stop dancing around the issue while pretending we don't understand why the TSA exists. In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "something". This was the something. Then, in the following years, the TSA evolved into a welfare program for veterans, because here in the US we can't dream of just giving people money, we have to invent bullshit jobs that make society worse.

I don't think most TSA employees are vets... I'm a veteran and it's relatively easy to identify a fellow vet most of the time.

Its nearly 20% staffed by vets https://www.tsa.gov/about/employee-stories/veterans-working-...

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#45
post #8

It's a job program. End of story.

Yes but can we get them to stand somewhere else or do anything else instead of providing negative value?

Is there really no job of moderate status that isn't too physically demanding and actually needs doing?

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#46
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or keeping public toilets gleaming clean, which seems to be the jobs program for the elderly in Japan.

No one values this work, and so it’s an identity and status issue. “Soldiers” vs janitors and people who keep the lights on. (“Support our troops”, “back the blue”, etc).

It's not that it's not valued. Just look at what happens when the work isn't done, and you just see how much people suddenly recognize the value.

The problem is that society has placed the janitorial job at the bottom of the list of wanted jobs. You know, the jobs immigrants are stealing

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were terrorists, they would just open fire on the crowded security checkpoints and kill hundreds of people without any complex scheme. This doesn't happen because there is no terrorist threat we need to be on guard against.

If it's so obvious, then why didn't this happen on 9/11? Edit: I'm aware that the TSA was created after 9/11. The point I'm making is that it's possible they were able to bring weapons aboard to hijack the planes because security was so lax.

Security checkpoints weren’t crowded before 9/11 because it didn’t take 15 minutes to get through security. I guess this is becoming lost ancient history. There was no ID check. There wasn’t even a boarding pass check — you routinely accompanied departing friends to their gate to see them off. There was none of this shoes off, no liquids, laptop out of the bag, just an x-ray and a metal detector.

The threat model before 9/11 was hijacking, not suicide bombers.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#48
post #26

If you're ever wondering why something in the U.S. can't be made better, the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs. This is why we can't have the government file taxes on our behalf: because Intuit would no longer be collecting rent, and rent-collecting must be protected at all costs. This is why we can't have a single-payer healthcare system:…

Good comment.

I'll add that one solution is to simply not fly through TSA airports.

I flew JSX last weekend and security was a swab for explosives and a metal detector. It took 30 seconds. Ticket says to arrive to the airport 15 minutes before departure. I'm not sure how scalable flying out of regional airports is, but the extra $200 was worth the price for a) not burning an hour arriving and b) having a large enough seat to work while airborne.

And the other option is of course to invest in HSR where possible.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#49
post #26

If you're ever wondering why something in the U.S. can't be made better, the answer is often that the existing rent-collectors must be allowed to continue collecting their rent at all costs. This is why we can't have the government file taxes on our behalf: because Intuit would no longer be collecting rent, and rent-collecting must be protected at all costs. This is why we can't have a single-payer healthcare system:…

The difference being that the TSA is the government, and the government collects that rent whether or not the TSA exist.

It's not that rent collectors must continue to be able to collect rent, it's that "it'll put people out of a job", no matter whether those jobs ever made any sort of sense, and actively make people's lives worse. Jobs are near-religiously sacred to the US mindset.

Re: Can We Just Throw in the Towel on Airport Security Theater Already?

#50
post #36

I don't understand the hate for TSA. Sure, it can be better. But does anyone dare board a plane when none of the passengers have been screened?

I remember flying pre-9/11. There was still a security checkpoint with metal detectors. It was run by the airport instead of the feds.

Even further back, before the hijacking spree of the 70s, when I was a kid I remember our local airport had no division between ground side and air side. You just got out of your car, walked to the gate, and they checked your boarding pass. This would be in the late 1970s, it was a remote city, so probably the transition to a "secure boarding area" was later than in the big cities.
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