I slightly fear how much of my own thinking is there just because some corporation or another big entity wanted me to think like that and spent considerable resources to make it happen.
Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
41–50 of 411 posts
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#42Is there really anything here, if you remove the 'scare quotes'?
You could read the article.
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#43Yeah, let's focus on the company that pays their employees 15x minimum wage and has top tier vacation, healthcare, and maternity/paternity leave.
Unions also don't need to be used for personal compensation and benefits. Plenty of software unions fighting for the ethical interests of the employees, which is an area where Google leaves a lot to be desired.
What if I disagree with the union's position on ethics? For example, I do not agree with Google's decision to avoid some DoD contracts (I worked in Google at the time). I'd only want a union to handle my work aspects (and even then... it's not clear they would provide me with all the wonderful things I have received over the years from Google and other tech employers).
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#44"Do no evil." indeed.
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#45I'm guessing that this is related to the Epic case? Seems incredible that Google/Epic/Apple have decided that the ongoing lawsuit is worth all the negative PR that these doc dumps have brought.
Different issue were Google is being sued. This is related to NLRB rulings on the four union organizers Google fired back in 2019- they sued for illegally being fired for union organizing work. Under the previous administration the behavior was ignored, but the current administration is much more charitable towards union work, so the lawsuit is back and Google is desperately trying to hide everything it can.
Google can settle this by re-employing the organizers and ceasing to retaliate against union organizing work, as they are legally required to do in the US. However, they have decided on a different path.
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do wonder how much of HN culture is affected by very smart people (in one domain) being subconsciously led to believe things by the machinations of tech. As smart people, they take very passionate positions on issues they believe strongly. Perhaps they wouldn't have believed them so strongly in a vacuum though?
You nailed something that I've noticed. Highly competent and intelligent people tend to lean libertarian in my experience. It's only when they get cancer, or finally meet some form of humility that they see the inherent advantages they had over others for what it is. Simply a roll of the dice. Competent, capable, hardworking people often fail to see the bigger picture, and dismiss others that aren't like them. If you…
> Simply a roll of the dice.
In that case, so is this very conversation, the fact that we're both on this website, and even the fact that we are both interested in tech.
If it's simply a roll of the dice, then nearly all aspects to existence are pointless, there's no point in trying to think for oneself, etc. Perhaps this is what you truly intend to convey, but until you explicitly state this, this is an incoherent perspective.
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#47Is there really anything here, if you remove the 'scare quotes'?
Nothing you couldn't glean with a common sense approach to material interests at play in a workplace. Of course a corporation wants to extract as much wealth with as little overhead as possible. Outside of ineffectual executives, there are few that orient companies towards making less money intentionally. Analyzing every choice made in a work place through this lens is both dead simple and continually enlightening.
Some commentator once noted that those elite with the highest levels of wealth (say top 1%) don't disbelieve Marx's analysis of the world and capital distribution. They understand it quite well, they're just on the opposite side of the field from the proles and they leverage that analysis to keep it that way. The commentator continued that when you think about it this way, business papers and similar sources of info are actually quite useful for a Marxian lens. Those with capital know that capital is biggest driving force, so that's of course what they're going to focus on.
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#48> Google fired the workers in 2019 after they organized against the company’s contracts with immigration detention agencies. Wooow. That was at the height of ICE being shown as deeply corrupt and racist child abusers. (They still are, but it hasn't been used as a stick to beat Biden with because 'reasons'). >the NLRB issued a federal complaint against Google for illegally firing and surveilling the four software engi…
>> Kara Silverstein, Google’s human resources director said that she “like[d] the idea” of the op-ed, but that it should be executed so that “there would be no fingerprints and not Google specific.”
> So, she knew how uncool/illegal that looks. Schwifty.
Guess who's currently the "Director of Integrity" at Google. I sure hope it's someone with integrity who would never want their actions hidden.
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#49Imputing altruistic morals to profit-seeking entities and then continually being surprised and offended when companies act shady puts employees in a pointlessly weak position. Instead, treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders. There is no shame in fighting for yourself. You are worth it.
In this case they are treating the company as adversarial. Part of the process is to feign weakness and to appear sympathetic to outsiders. They know that the company cannot do anything when such accusations are thrown out.
Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do wonder how much of HN culture is affected by very smart people (in one domain) being subconsciously led to believe things by the machinations of tech. As smart people, they take very passionate positions on issues they believe strongly. Perhaps they wouldn't have believed them so strongly in a vacuum though?
You nailed something that I've noticed. Highly competent and intelligent people tend to lean libertarian in my experience. It's only when they get cancer, or finally meet some form of humility that they see the inherent advantages they had over others for what it is. Simply a roll of the dice. Competent, capable, hardworking people often fail to see the bigger picture, and dismiss others that aren't like them. If you…
You are describing privilege, although it's a bit of a tainted word now.