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Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

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Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#31

Post by jeffbee »

mandmandam wrote: post #14

> Google fired the workers in 2019 after they organized against the company’s contracts with immigration detention agencies. Wooow. That was at the height of ICE being shown as deeply corrupt and racist child abusers. (They still are, but it hasn't been used as a stick to beat Biden with because 'reasons'). >the NLRB issued a federal complaint against Google for illegally firing and surveilling the four software engi…

This article and other I've seen are misrepresenting the role of the NLRB in these matters. The NLRB adjudicates these cases. They don't bring them. When these journalists say that the NLRB issued a complaint or an accusation, what actually happened is the employees brought a complaint and the NLRB declined, so far, to dismiss it (and actually in this matter the NLRB did dismiss it once, but then later under a different administration they reinstated it.)

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#32

Post by BuckRogers »

mhoad wrote: post #3

Seems to have worked amazingly well based on all the times I recall reading the comments of stories posted here involving unions.

I believe unions are actually necessary. Necessary evil at times or not, it's a human right to have a union.

I've never been in a union, but my wife is. And I've worked as management with unions in a factory setting. It was fine, actually. The company I worked for that was unionized was the best, most efficient corporation that I've ever seen.

In fact it was a superior there that told me, when I was more anti-union, that "companies get the union they deserve".

I did everything I could to get my wife into a professional career with a union, so that when I die she'll be as safe and protected without me. I never wanted anyone taking advantage of her in her career. The union may sometimes do stupid things, but overall to not have one is an absurd, and small-minded idea.

All that said, unions should also be sector-wide not worksite based. And there probably shouldn't be any government unions- I wouldn't budge on anything though as things are today, without real and significant gains for unions in the private market.

I do believe small business under a certain number of employees should be exempted from unions. Say <10 employees. I know France does this, or something similar to it. Big corps keep out competition too easily, and should be doing more to keep the American middle class around. Their contribution can be unionizing. I also think unions would help the world, while I'm certainly not overpaid myself, my Indian colleagues deserve the same pay I receive. I'd strike for that. They, and my employer, deserve it.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#33

Post by noah_buddy »

mhoad wrote: post #3

Seems to have worked amazingly well based on all the times I recall reading the comments of stories posted here involving unions.

I do wonder how much of HN culture is affected by very smart people (in one domain) being subconsciously led to believe things by the machinations of tech. As smart people, they take very passionate positions on issues they believe strongly. Perhaps they wouldn't have believed them so strongly in a vacuum though?

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#35

Post by newaccount2021 »

mandmandam wrote: post #14

> Google fired the workers in 2019 after they organized against the company’s contracts with immigration detention agencies. Wooow. That was at the height of ICE being shown as deeply corrupt and racist child abusers. (They still are, but it hasn't been used as a stick to beat Biden with because 'reasons'). >the NLRB issued a federal complaint against Google for illegally firing and surveilling the four software engi…

No post body was provided.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#36

Post by tootahe45 »

vmception wrote: post #11
mrits wrote: post #5

Yeah, let's focus on the company that pays their employees 15x minimum wage and has top tier vacation, healthcare, and maternity/paternity leave.

Its a trillion dollar company with some/many employees delivering quite a bit more value than they are paid 1) Collectively getting the better stake of the pie influences other organizations compensation methods/amounts 2) the market is telling employees what to do, meaning that it doesn’t matter that an individual can do far more work for less pay somewhere else - just don’t do those things.

I always thought most Google employees would be creating less value than what they earn, with a few of Google's money printer products enabling such high remuneration for everybody.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#38

Post by 3pt14159 »

queuebert wrote: post #23

Imputing altruistic morals to profit-seeking entities and then continually being surprised and offended when companies act shady puts employees in a pointlessly weak position. Instead, treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders. There is no shame in fighting for yourself. You are worth it.

What if adversarial systems result in asymmetric arms races and the game theoretic best move is to work for a corporation that is so short sighted as to go to battle against their own employees and to work for them diligently and intelligently?

Because I see a whole lot happier employees at Tesla than I do at General Motors.

I'm not saying this is an all-or-nothing thing. I'd join a union if I was working for a certain type of employer (company town, federal government, etc) but when it comes to technology companies, I got to say it's pretty good here.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#40

Post by BuckRogers »

noah_buddy wrote: post #33
mhoad wrote: post #3

Seems to have worked amazingly well based on all the times I recall reading the comments of stories posted here involving unions.

I do wonder how much of HN culture is affected by very smart people (in one domain) being subconsciously led to believe things by the machinations of tech. As smart people, they take very passionate positions on issues they believe strongly. Perhaps they wouldn't have believed them so strongly in a vacuum though?

You nailed something that I've noticed. Highly competent and intelligent people tend to lean libertarian in my experience. It's only when they get cancer, or finally meet some form of humility that they see the inherent advantages they had over others for what it is. Simply a roll of the dice.

Competent, capable, hardworking people often fail to see the bigger picture, and dismiss others that aren't like them. If you have all 3 of those traits, which are both from your discipline and genetic predisposition, the world looks like a meritocracy, and it isn't.

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