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Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

reuters.com

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Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#41

Post by profile53 »

pengaru wrote: post #35
wrkronmiller wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends a lot on the car and the engine. If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android.

> If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android. It's also federally illegal , I don't know why you've veered this thread into ease of performing illegal modifications.

Incidentally, rooting an android tablet is federally illegal too.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#42

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

nightski wrote: post #19
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

I've definitely been hesitant to buy a Tesla for exactly this reason. It's not clear if you can turn it off or avoid it by not using FSD either. It's a shame, would love to own one some day. But I'm guessing the option of buying a car that doesn't have this is slowly dying unfortunately. Consumers never win with this sort of stuff. The really ironic thing is that it is tied in with a more environmentally friendly car…

There's an option in one of the menus for data sharing which should restrict some of the individualized data being generated. They'll still collect data on certain aspects off vehicle operation for diagnostic/monitoring purposes though.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#43

Post by speedgoose »

lazide wrote: post #24
tenuousemphasis wrote: post #18

>"That makes it interesting, because who is responsible for the following distance: the car or the driver?" said NFI investigator Aart Spek. That's easy. The driver sets the autopilot follow distance.

And if it doesn’t follow the setting, either due to a bug or misinterpreting something (bad sensor, bad sensor reading)?

It's the driver fault to not detect the event and to not take control, press the brake pedal, as far as I know.

When you engage the adaptive cruise control on any car brand, you are still very much responsible to not crash in the front car.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#44

Post by bigyikes »

mrhands556 wrote: post #39
toomuchtodo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d agree with that. We own Teslas but have no home assistants, use Facebook as little as possible, and buy Apple products because of their privacy stance. Nuance is important. I trust Tesla and Apple with my data, but not Facebook, Google, or Amazon. Contributing in small part to the electrification of transportation is more important to us than any benefit I’d enjoy from Tesla collecting less or no data from our ve…

But why one companies and not the other in terms of trust? It’s not like there are inherently different types of people working at one company vs the other. I’m curious.

Tesla doesn’t make money via ad targeting and sales.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#45

Post by mysterydip »

bigyikes wrote: post #44
mrhands556 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why one companies and not the other in terms of trust? It’s not like there are inherently different types of people working at one company vs the other. I’m curious.

Tesla doesn’t make money via ad targeting and sales.

Yet. As soon as data is stored/archived, it can be used later for any purpose. Even if the original company has no desire to do so, acquisitions/mergers/sales/trusted-third-parties could.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#46

Post by Retric »

mysterydip wrote: post #45
bigyikes wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla doesn’t make money via ad targeting and sales.

Yet. As soon as data is stored/archived, it can be used later for any purpose. Even if the original company has no desire to do so, acquisitions/mergers/sales/trusted-third-parties could.

The world is full of trade offs. Stuff that might happen in the future is less important than stuff that’s definitely happening today.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#47

Post by karpierz »

ajross wrote: post #38
lazide wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone promises you’ll have it any day now, so you pay them a lot of money, but they delay it years and years - and you note it’s a really hard problem - at what point is it fraud? Most legal precedent I’ve seen says a lot less time than they’ve already delayed it, frankly.

> at what point is it fraud? It's fraud when someone is harmed. People like you who didn't buy the product and don't want it don't have standing here. People like me, who did, do. And almost without exception, we're all lined up to get the beta release. Offer me a $10k refund today in exchange for never getting access to FSD releases, and I'd turn it down. "People willfully paying for something I don't like" isn't fr…

Why would getting a refund preclude you from buying self driving if/when it's released? I think that "pay now, maybe get it later" or "don't pay now, can't buy it later" is a false dilemma.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#48

Post by voakbasda »

croh wrote: post #33
voakbasda wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

you can repair only as long as parts are avilable.

Parts are available because I am far from alone in this sentiment.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#49

Post by voakbasda »

slt2021 wrote: post #30
voakbasda wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

old vehicles are very inefficient in terms of safety, fuel consumption, and exhaust gases, for this reason alone one should prefer electric or modern era ICE

And those extra costs are worth paying to avoid businesses that abuse their customers by making parts and service inaccessible or unaffordable, tracking their customer, and otherwise making cars more expensive and less enjoyable to own and use. And all carmakers are abusive these days, because the market has selected for that new status quo.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#50

Post by lttlrck »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #26
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd. Anecdotal I know, but most people I know who drive Teslas have multiple home assistants, Instagram/Facebook accounts, and little regard for personal privacy. Most people I know in the social media/home assistant avoiding crowd talk about how they wish they could buy a car with…

2021 safety tech includes back-up camera and associated LCD display, auto braking, lane keeping, LED headlight advancements, blind spot monitoring and numerous air bags, auto wipers and lights etc etc. plus structural improvement.

The car they want sounds like less well made 2021 car with 1990s fuel economy and performance and a drivetrain that is easier to maintain but needs more maintenance.

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