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Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

reuters.com

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Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#21

Post by voakbasda »

nightski wrote: post #19
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

I've definitely been hesitant to buy a Tesla for exactly this reason. It's not clear if you can turn it off or avoid it by not using FSD either. It's a shame, would love to own one some day. But I'm guessing the option of buying a car that doesn't have this is slowly dying unfortunately. Consumers never win with this sort of stuff. The really ironic thing is that it is tied in with a more environmentally friendly car…

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#22

Post by lazide »

ajross wrote: post #7
kjaftaedi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using it in court cases, so it would not be a secret anyway. The issue was that Tesla was only providing certain data that was being asked for. You wouldn't know that it would be possible to ask for more information, unless you knew they were collecting it. Now they know Tesla has this information they should be able to get it from them regardless if they have to decrypt it themselves or not. (Unless Tesla d…

> You wouldn't know that it would be possible to ask for more information, unless you knew they were collecting it. Only if Tesla purjured themselves during discovery. That's not the way court cases work. You can ask "Do you guys record the accelerometer data anywhere else but on the MCU?" and they have to answer truthfully. What you write here mostly amounts to a conspiracy theory. You're taking the idea that Tesla…

Eh, that’s generally not how the procedure works. A defendant quite explicitly doesn’t need to proactively provide all information that could possibly incriminate themselves. If the plaintiff isn’t asking for something then, cool. The plaintiff COULD ask for ‘all self driving data’, but often that can be objected to and/or thrown out, as it’s a fishing expedition and that data is proprietary. So that can tie up things for a long time while everyone argues back and forth in court, and it’s likely they’d only get the bare minimum to address whatever the case is alleging. That is very expensive to do.

If they know it’s there and can proactively argue it’s appropriate, that changes the equation dramatically.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#23

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

Is it not a necessary condition to collect that data in order to build and refine eventual FSD? I'm not making a blanket statement about bulk data collection but in Tesla's case, that data will eventually trickle back to the consumer in the form of car upgrades.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#24

Post by lazide »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #18

>"That makes it interesting, because who is responsible for the following distance: the car or the driver?" said NFI investigator Aart Spek. That's easy. The driver sets the autopilot follow distance.

And if it doesn’t follow the setting, either due to a bug or misinterpreting something (bad sensor, bad sensor reading)?

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#26

Post by vanilla_nut »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd.

Anecdotal I know, but most people I know who drive Teslas have multiple home assistants, Instagram/Facebook accounts, and little regard for personal privacy.

Most people I know in the social media/home assistant avoiding crowd talk about how they wish they could buy a car with 90s tech (but 2021 safety tech) to make it simpler and cheaper to repair, since they don't care about CarPlay or Android Auto or the million "convenience" features that don't work reliably.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#27

Post by csours »

birdman3131 wrote: post #11
mettamage wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ohhh, I think this can be a generalized life hack! Thanks! First extension I see: do this with people :D

The issue with this is often there are reasons a person/manufacturer are more or less liked than others. Sometimes those reasons even matter.

For sure. It's not a magic bullet. This is one of the hardest problems because it's so hard to see and reason clearly.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#28

Post by ximeng »

lazide wrote: post #20
tenuousemphasis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who actually purchased FSD and has yet to receive it, it's not a scam. It's just a really hard problem that I think Tesla will solve before anyone else.

If someone promises you’ll have it any day now, so you pay them a lot of money, but they delay it years and years - and you note it’s a really hard problem - at what point is it fraud? Most legal precedent I’ve seen says a lot less time than they’ve already delayed it, frankly.

There are plenty of videos on Youtube showing the state and rate of progress of self-driving. It's clear it's got a long way to go but is improving quickly.

Everyone knows that Elon Musk's twitter is not a reliable indicator of feature release dates.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#29

Post by maxerickson »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #26
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd. Anecdotal I know, but most people I know who drive Teslas have multiple home assistants, Instagram/Facebook accounts, and little regard for personal privacy. Most people I know in the social media/home assistant avoiding crowd talk about how they wish they could buy a car with…

My 2013 car is not particularly laden with gizmos and has been very easy to repair (no real breakdowns...).

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#30

Post by slt2021 »

voakbasda wrote: post #21
nightski wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've definitely been hesitant to buy a Tesla for exactly this reason. It's not clear if you can turn it off or avoid it by not using FSD either. It's a shame, would love to own one some day. But I'm guessing the option of buying a car that doesn't have this is slowly dying unfortunately. Consumers never win with this sort of stuff. The really ironic thing is that it is tied in with a more environmentally friendly car…

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

old vehicles are very inefficient in terms of safety, fuel consumption, and exhaust gases, for this reason alone one should prefer electric or modern era ICE
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