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Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

reuters.com

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Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#31

Post by throwawaylinux »

slt2021 wrote: post #30
voakbasda wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

old vehicles are very inefficient in terms of safety, fuel consumption, and exhaust gases, for this reason alone one should prefer electric or modern era ICE

Fuel consumption and carbon emissions - that very much depends. Small cars of 30-40 year ago are often very good, even better than today's models in some cases.

https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mile...

Reasons for this are probably creeping sizes and weights and larger engines, larger tires and softer rides.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#32

Post by toomuchtodo »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #26
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd. Anecdotal I know, but most people I know who drive Teslas have multiple home assistants, Instagram/Facebook accounts, and little regard for personal privacy. Most people I know in the social media/home assistant avoiding crowd talk about how they wish they could buy a car with…

I’d agree with that. We own Teslas but have no home assistants, use Facebook as little as possible, and buy Apple products because of their privacy stance. Nuance is important. I trust Tesla and Apple with my data, but not Facebook, Google, or Amazon.

Contributing in small part to the electrification of transportation is more important to us than any benefit I’d enjoy from Tesla collecting less or no data from our vehicles.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#33

Post by croh »

voakbasda wrote: post #21
nightski wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've definitely been hesitant to buy a Tesla for exactly this reason. It's not clear if you can turn it off or avoid it by not using FSD either. It's a shame, would love to own one some day. But I'm guessing the option of buying a car that doesn't have this is slowly dying unfortunately. Consumers never win with this sort of stuff. The really ironic thing is that it is tied in with a more environmentally friendly car…

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

you can repair only as long as parts are avilable.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#34

Post by wrkronmiller »

maxerickson wrote: post #29
vanilla_nut wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd. Anecdotal I know, but most people I know who drive Teslas have multiple home assistants, Instagram/Facebook accounts, and little regard for personal privacy. Most people I know in the social media/home assistant avoiding crowd talk about how they wish they could buy a car with…

My 2013 car is not particularly laden with gizmos and has been very easy to repair (no real breakdowns...).

It depends a lot on the car and the engine.

If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#35

Post by pengaru »

wrkronmiller wrote: post #34
maxerickson wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2013 car is not particularly laden with gizmos and has been very easy to repair (no real breakdowns...).

It depends a lot on the car and the engine. If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android.

> If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android.

It's also federally illegal, I don't know why you've veered this thread into ease of performing illegal modifications.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#36

Post by hungryforcodes »

slt2021 wrote: post #30
voakbasda wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will continue to repair my ‘70s and ‘80s era vehicles, because newer models that incorporate electronics are all total garbage. Reason: embedded engineer for 30 years who has worked on automotive software.

old vehicles are very inefficient in terms of safety, fuel consumption, and exhaust gases, for this reason alone one should prefer electric or modern era ICE

Though none of those cars track my personal data in the extreme or in fact at all. Remember the point of the GP thread...

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#37

Post by ajross »

lazide wrote: post #22
ajross wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You wouldn't know that it would be possible to ask for more information, unless you knew they were collecting it. Only if Tesla purjured themselves during discovery. That's not the way court cases work. You can ask "Do you guys record the accelerometer data anywhere else but on the MCU?" and they have to answer truthfully. What you write here mostly amounts to a conspiracy theory. You're taking the idea that Tesla…

Eh, that’s generally not how the procedure works. A defendant quite explicitly doesn’t need to proactively provide all information that could possibly incriminate themselves. If the plaintiff isn’t asking for something then, cool. The plaintiff COULD ask for ‘all self driving data’, but often that can be objected to and/or thrown out, as it’s a fishing expedition and that data is proprietary. So that can tie up thing…

You don't have to know it's there, you just have to understand the problem space enough to find it. You depose an engineer and you ask "do you store this information?", and they have to answer. Then you can ask "where do you store it?", and so on. There's complexity about some questions being procedurally allowed, etc... But that's how it works.

Fundamentally this process isn't any different than reverse engineering. If a good hacker can figure out how something works based on knowledge of the problem domain and technology in use, then those same questions can be answered in a deposition and provided via discovery, by definition.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#38

Post by ajross »

lazide wrote: post #20
tenuousemphasis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who actually purchased FSD and has yet to receive it, it's not a scam. It's just a really hard problem that I think Tesla will solve before anyone else.

If someone promises you’ll have it any day now, so you pay them a lot of money, but they delay it years and years - and you note it’s a really hard problem - at what point is it fraud? Most legal precedent I’ve seen says a lot less time than they’ve already delayed it, frankly.

> at what point is it fraud?

It's fraud when someone is harmed. People like you who didn't buy the product and don't want it don't have standing here. People like me, who did, do. And almost without exception, we're all lined up to get the beta release. Offer me a $10k refund today in exchange for never getting access to FSD releases, and I'd turn it down.

"People willfully paying for something I don't like" isn't fraud. Find a FSD owner willing to sue for a refund.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#39

Post by mrhands556 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #32
vanilla_nut wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there's only a very small intersection between the Facebook-avoiding, home assistant-eschewing crowd and the Tesla driving crowd. Anecdotal I know, but most people I know who drive Teslas have multiple home assistants, Instagram/Facebook accounts, and little regard for personal privacy. Most people I know in the social media/home assistant avoiding crowd talk about how they wish they could buy a car with…

I’d agree with that. We own Teslas but have no home assistants, use Facebook as little as possible, and buy Apple products because of their privacy stance. Nuance is important. I trust Tesla and Apple with my data, but not Facebook, Google, or Amazon. Contributing in small part to the electrification of transportation is more important to us than any benefit I’d enjoy from Tesla collecting less or no data from our ve…

But why one companies and not the other in terms of trust? It’s not like there are inherently different types of people working at one company vs the other. I’m curious.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#40

Post by speedgoose »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #36
slt2021 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

old vehicles are very inefficient in terms of safety, fuel consumption, and exhaust gases, for this reason alone one should prefer electric or modern era ICE

Though none of those cars track my personal data in the extreme or in fact at all. Remember the point of the GP thread...

In case of a crash, I rather have my butt position being tracked and in palantir's databases or equivalent than having the engine block crushing my body.
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