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Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
41–50 of 127 posts
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#42Álvaro Hernández here apparently runs a PostgreSQL consulting firm [1] and controls "Fundación PostgreSQL." Would Fundación PostgreSQL have the power to grant exclusive use of the trademark to the consulting firm? [1] https://ongres.com/about-us/#team
Just to play devil's advocate — OOC, what do you think the end game for Álvaro would be under this scenario? Under the most cynical interpretation, I guess he'd convert Ongres from a Postgres consultancy to a trademark troll and sue other companies who try to use "Postgres"? Maybe, but that's a pretty serious professional change, and seems a little unlikely, especially given that's a considerable chance that he loses…
Trademark trolling is specifically the use case for this. Sue every sub $300k/yr company than mentions that they use PostgreSQL in their stack. They won't have the funds to defend themselves, he makes off with $10k-$30k in settlements and goes on to the next one until a court stops him.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#43Álvaro Hernández here apparently runs a PostgreSQL consulting firm [1] and controls "Fundación PostgreSQL." Would Fundación PostgreSQL have the power to grant exclusive use of the trademark to the consulting firm? [1] https://ongres.com/about-us/#team
Fundación PostgreSQL is a 100% independent non-profit organization not tied to any company or any other institution. Its governing board cannot have more than 40% members of the same company. Please go to https://postgresql.fund/ and read the Statutes.
Actually, a "Fundación" in Spain is an entity specially scrutinized by the Ministry of Justice, and could never to anything like this. It is meant to be for the public good.
Besides, this very same question could have been applied to the Core Team members that are employees of EDB and/or Crunchy, two entities that control the majority of Core. And Core is not even a non-profit, it's nothing (there's no legal entity behind). Or the PostgreSQL Association of Canada, which is an association which could definitely grant exclusive trademark use to a given entity, as it is not scrutinized by a country's Ministry, as a Fundación in Spain is.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#44I wonder why the pre-existing core PostgreSQL organization (not super-clear to me which this is) did already have these trademarks in the top handful of countries/jurisdictions. Rather than wait for someone else to try and then get in a potentially expensive fight. PostgreSQL has been around for 25 years, there has been ample time to figure that out, right?
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#45I wonder why the pre-existing core PostgreSQL organization (not super-clear to me which this is) did already have these trademarks in the top handful of countries/jurisdictions. Rather than wait for someone else to try and then get in a potentially expensive fight. PostgreSQL has been around for 25 years, there has been ample time to figure that out, right?
Sounds like in the US at least they _do_ have trademarks, the other organisations filing was declined by the PTO because of the existing mark, see the documents linked in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28513942
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#46In the spirit of the open source movement, the PostgreSQL community has always tried to operate transparently and fairly, and provide resources for people to adopt, use, and promote PostgreSQL. We continuously look to improve and are very much open to feedback (look no further than the discussions on our mailing lists)! Perhaps I am just a little too young but I do find the use of mailing lists in some of the older o…
Linux has had the LKML for almost three decades. It still works well for them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel_mailing_list
I don't participate in any mailing lists since at least 2008 and I'm pretty sophisticated. What constitutes "works" is that they (Linux Kernel working group) have a very primitive forum (mailing list) wherein there is no recognized pressure to change. People still use HAM radio because they "work" but that's not the optimal way to collaborate.
Give it a few more decades.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
That feels like a totally fair assessment. I guess I would say that mailing lists favor producers over consumers. Often when I am looking at a mailing list it is for the same reason I am poking through a GitHub issue. I am looking for someone who had a similar problem and maybe someone else had a solution. Thus I think I am largely a consumer. As a consumer I dont often think, let me go to my email client. My email c…
How about an interface like GitHub issues? Do you feel that strikes a balance between consumers/producers for this kind of discussions? Edit: I think you updated your comment while I replied (or maybe I just hit reply without seing the last part of your comment). I see now that you've mentioned GitHub issues, which is a kind of interface that I've seen get a better balance, but I'm not sure how it stands from a produ…
GH issues does not fan out into contextual threads. That makes it a nonstarter.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#48Álvaro Hernández here apparently runs a PostgreSQL consulting firm [1] and controls "Fundación PostgreSQL." Would Fundación PostgreSQL have the power to grant exclusive use of the trademark to the consulting firm? [1] https://ongres.com/about-us/#team
Fundación PostgreSQL is a 100% independent non-profit organization not tied to any company or any other institution. Its governing board cannot have more than 40% members of the same company. Please go to https://postgresql.fund/ and read the Statutes. Actually, a "Fundación" in Spain is an entity specially scrutinized by the Ministry of Justice, and could never to anything like this. It is meant to be for the public…
Please don't pretend you're not doing this in bad faith. Trying to make the existing Postgres team look like the bad guys is embarrassing. You're doing this for your own profit, that much is clear.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#49Perhaps for legal reasons it is important to show willingness to negotiate .. but really, a land-grab like this gets "we hope we can be friends" response ? "The PostgreSQL Core Team and PGCAC still hope for an amicable resolution" ..
That's not an offer to give ground to them in any material way. The next sentence says "the PostgreSQL Core Team and PGCAC will pursue all options until" the land-grabbing group surrenders all their land-grab claims.
That's just saying: we hope they'll recognize that what they're doing doesn't make any sense, and give it up rather than pursue a fight all the way through the legal process.
Re: Trademark Actions Against the PostgreSQL Community
#50In the spirit of the open source movement, the PostgreSQL community has always tried to operate transparently and fairly, and provide resources for people to adopt, use, and promote PostgreSQL. We continuously look to improve and are very much open to feedback (look no further than the discussions on our mailing lists)! Perhaps I am just a little too young but I do find the use of mailing lists in some of the older o…
It's a shame the PostgreSQL lists dropped off Gmane. That used to be a decent way to read them.