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Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#41

Post by ajross »

kdmccormick wrote: post #37

Have all the commenters here assuming that this is a misguided attempt that'll end up letting any idiot into degree programs as long as they are labeled "diverse" considered that maybe, possibly standardized tests aren't necessarily a good measure of one's ability to a learn well through a degree program? That maybe the ability to answer hundreds of multiple choice questions and write five-paragraph essays in several…

These are excellent points, but I don't think this is as much a political thing as a personal one. The highly-numerate, low-social-skills set that makes up the bulk of the posters here tends to be disproportionately successful on standardized tests.

I think to a lot of us (and again, I actually agree on the policy angle here that testing is at best a flawed predictor of future success) this feels like a rejection of our own qualifications.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#42

Post by itronitron »

ajross wrote: post #40
wtvanhest wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just enrollment, but also % of applicants accepted.

Why would a school want to increase their acceptance rate? Generally selectivity is seen as a proxy for "quality".

more students will apply if they think they have a chance despite a lower test score, which will keep the acceptance rate low :>

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#43

Post by aianus »

Waterluvian wrote: post #38

Maybe I'm wrong in one or many ways. But I'm reading a lot of people suggesting it's for the dumbening. But I never took anything like the SATs in Canada. I don't think we have that. And our universities seem to be doing great. Here in Ontario admissions goes by your top 6 "university level" high school class grades. It helps prevent your future from being determined by a single test, which to me seems like a terribl…

No, it’s a terrible system that we have here in Ontario.

People kill themselves every year at Waterloo when they reach university and discover their 98% grade in high school math was a lie and they are completely unprepared and begin flunking out.

Simultaneously someone who goes to a good high school and learns real math but only gets an 80% (which should be good!) is instead stressing out that they won’t get into university because the published admissions average is 90%+. To their credit Waterloo actually adjusts grades based on which high school you go to, but now that is unfair to someone good who happens to go to a bad high school.

Finally you have rich kids that go from getting 60% in day school to getting 98% in their “accredited” private high school night classes which are economically incentivized to give the highest grades to their customers.

What a joke.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#44

Post by xyzzyz »

kdmccormick wrote: post #37

Have all the commenters here assuming that this is a misguided attempt that'll end up letting any idiot into degree programs as long as they are labeled "diverse" considered that maybe, possibly standardized tests aren't necessarily a good measure of one's ability to a learn well through a degree program? That maybe the ability to answer hundreds of multiple choice questions and write five-paragraph essays in several…

It is well known and universally acknowledged that SAT scores are highly predictive of educational outcomes. See eg. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/educators/higher-e... . You can use other alternative measures to predict educational success, but it’s important to get it right, otherwise you’ll end up with low quality student body that isn’t able to learn much and will drop out at high rates. Currently, high school GPA is also good at predicting success, but it’s highly variable among schools. Should SAT testing be abolished, parents who now pay for prepping will instead put their children in schools where they are guaranteed high GPAs.

With all of its flaws, standardized testing is still the best of all available alternatives for the purpose it’s used for. You need to acknowledge that no matter what approach you use, it will be gamed.Thus, if you want to ensure fairness, you need to choose one that’s hardest to game. Clearly, high school GPA, essays and volunteering is much easier to game than SAT score.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#46

Post by vntx »

spicyusername wrote: post #21

No disagreement that there are fundamental elements of our socio-economic system that suppress certain groups of people, but this approach seems to be tackling this problem from an extremely misguided direction. The end goal is certainly to increase college enrollment among groups who have historically been underrepresented, and removing all academic and skill prerequisites from academic and skilled trades programs w…

Agreed, this approach is misguided.

Removing standardized tests removes a useful metric admissions can use to analyze applicants as part of a holistic process. Is it a perfect metric? No, but the scores are good predictors for diligence which is crucial for college success.

If you need to go to college to develop fundamental critical thinking skills, then something is very, very wrong with your basic education system.

Wouldn’t it be more optimal to develop those skills from the beginning of life, through the family, bolstered by a rigorous basic education BEFORE you start college?

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#47

Post by alpineidyll3 »

spamizbad wrote: post #29

It's a cynical move to hit their enrollment numbers, sold to the public as something to improve "diversity". But it's really just laying the groundwork for schools to cope with life after the college boom is over. For elite schools, it also makes it easier to provide cover for legacy and donor admissions. You no longer have to explain how Keese James Shackleford IV got into the the Shackleford school of dkljalfjaf wh…

Exactly. Colleges are in the business of marketing prestige, why lend credibility to a test anyone can take to prove they are intelligent without paying to attend for four years.

Ex professor here. Faculty have the power to end this bezzle if we admit students are learning nothing and we'd all be better off with real jobs.

Re: Record number of colleges drop SAT/ACT admissions requirement

#49

Post by wyxuan »

mhuffman wrote: post #8
skywhopper wrote: post #5

Common sense should tell us that standardized tests like this are not fair assessments of actual student academic potential. To the extent these tests predict success in college, it's only because they are biased in the same ways that most college support structures are biased. And once the "predictive" tests are in place and accepted, they form a reinforcement loop with college results, each proving the other "right…

> Common sense should tell us that standardized tests like this are not fair assessments of actual student academic potential. Common sense should tell you no such thing! Why wouldn't a test that measures a list of aptitudes (writing, comprehension, logic, math, etc.) not correlate to some extent to academic success in a liberal arts degree? Literally the classes you have to take are related to writing, comprehension…

If you actually take the SAT, you realize that the content is very easy. Instead, its just a test taking strategy test. Who had the better tutor. It doesn't test any 'real' skills, only how well they can bubble answer sheets.
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