Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#41

Post by lvturner » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

Very easy to say, a lot harder to do

Equally, finally leaving the games industry was one of the better things I did.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#42

Post by iguy » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

ed312 wrote: post #20

lovetocode wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A developer can go make crud web applications like the rest of us. There are options to get out of it they just don’t want to take them. I don’t know if this rings true for graphics artists, game designers, etc. But a programmer who develops game code can probably write a web app too without too much struggle

I did exactly what you described. Unfortunately there is an endless supply of fresh grads (and even very talented amateurs with no schooling) willing to work absolutely slave-like conditions to "live the dream".

This is also why being an aspiring actor comes with terrible pay, hours, conditions. And it doesn't seem likely to change. There's a long line of people who dream of trying, and they bid down the price at the auction.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#43

Post by lovetocode » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

hannasanarion wrote: post #37

lovetocode wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough and you are probably right. I come from the position that you can only beat a dog so long before it bites back. But I feel like this could have been prevented if developers weren’t so enamored with the idea of developing games. Yeah it’s cool but it’s not cool enough to throw your dignity away.

And so you kill the dog and get another. People who want to make games are not in short supply.

Can’t argue with that.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#44

Post by philipov » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #39

Pfhreak wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience it was the ic level. Leadership would say, what's a reasonable timeline for feature x. The engineers would spend two hours arguing that estimates are bullshit, then give a trivially small (and obviously wrong) estimate. Leadership would say, are you sure? Engineers would basically flip them the bird and say yes. Then inevitably be late. I get it, estimating is inexact. But there's a clear difference…

Why wouldn't they give a trivially large (and very safe) estimate? Telling someone you will be finished tomorrow puts the onus on you to explain why your estimate was wrong.

Insecurity combined with spinelessness causes people to give the answer they think their superior wants. This is a response that is trained by managers using microaggression.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#45

Post by lovetocode » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

kabacha wrote: post #14

sageabilly wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every single employer has the same work conditions, then what? If the state of the industry as a whole is low pay and unpaid overtime, then it's not like a developer can just go to a better job.

Unions is a solution we got kinda nailed long time ago.

I’m not knowledgeable enough of unions to take an informed position on their merits. My impression was that unions are often an image of protection and nothing more. I could be wrong about that though.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#46

Post by bubblewrap » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

They are not being exploited. They are free to take on another job. Especially coders could certainly find jobs in other industries.

And "Fortnite" is not the games industry. There are a variety of ways to make a living making games.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#47

Post by maxehmookau » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

>They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions.

YES! You're absolutely right!

> They don’t need to unionize.

Err... Why on earth not? That would literally be the definition of growing a spine and saying no to ridiculous work conditions but also having it be effective.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#48

Post by collyw » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #10

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

Having worked in the industry they believe it's necessary. I got yoked into a mandated long weekend and was laughed out of the room when I demanded a retrospective. Long hours is a failure, we should know what failed so it doesn't happen again. Their response? That's just the way it is in games. Absolutely zero desire or acknowledgement that it should be different.

Isn't there an element of supply and demand to it - lots of gamers become programmers and want to work as games devs. Databases on the other hand aren't cool, but businesses need them.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#49

Post by CodeCube » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

lvturner wrote: post #41

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

Very easy to say, a lot harder to do Equally, finally leaving the games industry was one of the better things I did.

same, unfortunately ... I loved my time in the game industry, but I also loved spending time (and more money achieved elsewhere) on my family.

Re: Making Video Games Is Not a Dream Job

#50

Post by EliRivers » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

lovetocode wrote: post #6

Game developers let themselves be exploited with low pay and unpaid overtime. They should grow a spine and say no to ridiculous work conditions. I am tired of hearing about it. They don’t need to unionize, they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set. If we are talking specifically about programmers, we have the fortunate leverage to tell our employers to go piss up a rope with the weekly job o…

they need to realize that they have a unique and valuable skill set

The competition to be a low-paid drone in game development is huge; significantly more than in non game dev. The games industry is powered by huge numbers of low-experience software engineers. They get paid in glamour and the thrill of being able to tell their friends they work in games. They could leave and go somewhere else for more money, but they don't want more money as much as they want that glamour. I've seen it myself; people take low-paid QA jobs at games companies for the love of spending 12 hours a day following mind-numbing instructions, repetitively playtesting a greyscale wireframe without sound or graphics assets. For the glamour of it.

These people have skill sets that are unusual amongst the general population, but not in the realms of software engineering job candidates and even less so in games, where strongly talented people take Godawful jobs for the glamour of it.

Yes, there are highly skilled, experienced software engineers in the industry too, but they're not the ones being fucked over in huge numbers on a daily basis.