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Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

phys.org

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Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#41

Post by mey »

adreamingsoul wrote: post #38
jefflombardjr wrote: post #2

Anyone fascinated by this article, I highly suggest reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. I just recently picked it up after seeing it recommended on a couple of threads here and it did not disappoint. Humans have been affecting ecology for a long long time. If you are like me, you're probably wondering what you can do to mitigate some of the effects, while legislation and societal action is important. I also recomme…

Instead of courses, I recommend to get a couple books on Permaculture and also look to see if any universities have extension courses for Permaculture or any topic related to it. Chances are, most of the teachers are now familiar with Permaculture and can speak to the “historical” methods and the “Permaculture” methods. Yes, a lot of people have been trying to make money of the cerificstion courses, which I think is…

The referenced link is for a free online course

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#42

Post by mooreds »

bambataa wrote: post #20
jefflombardjr wrote: post #2

Anyone fascinated by this article, I highly suggest reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. I just recently picked it up after seeing it recommended on a couple of threads here and it did not disappoint. Humans have been affecting ecology for a long long time. If you are like me, you're probably wondering what you can do to mitigate some of the effects, while legislation and societal action is important. I also recomme…

Thanks for this. I’ve been interested in permaculture since coming across it at festivals but I’ve been put off how everyone seems to be selling courses. This is the first free one I’ve found. It feels a bit like minimalism where everyone tried to practice it by selling ebooks about minimalism.

I took two courses. It is electrifying, and a great new way of looking at the world.

But of course, when I was done with the course, I looked at where I could make some money doing permaculture. There were, as far as I could see, two ways:

* teach

* do landscape design

The first is much much easier to get into and isn't as hard as the latter. I think that is why you see so many courses.

I have applied permaculture to my land and my life, even though I can't make money from it directly.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#43

Post by whatshisface »

jemfinch wrote: post #39
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sapiens seemed very pseudo-scientific to me. It seemed like Hariri had one agenda and was trying to push that desperately.

What agenda did you think he was pushing? I think you may be confusing "agenda" with "perspective". He was pushing one perspective: his own, as all authors do. But it's our job as readers to understand the author's perspective and recognize it as such. Neither history nor anthropology permits storytelling without a perspective. There's always a perspective. Reading for learning means understanding that perspective an…

>I think you may be confusing "agenda" with "perspective". He was pushing one perspective: his own, as all authors do.

If you're used to science, it can come as a surprise that a person can willfully ignore (not just focus away from, ignore), all but one option for an entire book, and it still be considered an intellectual effort as opposed to a sales pitch or campaign tool.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#44

Post by dalbasal »

gaius wrote: post #8
credit_guy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Give me a half tanker of iron, and I will give you an ice age.” - John Martin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Martin_(oceanographer)

What’s the downside to that strategy? It seems like a no-brainer at first glance

Erm... Isn't the downside that op will give us an ice age of empires unpredictable severity and duration?

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#45

Post by dalbasal »

Rubinsalamander wrote: post #14
bryanlarsen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a very large band for the "right" temperature. The problem is the rate of change. Given enough time, the ecosystem will adapt.

That large band exists only for mediterran regions. Some regions are already living on the hot/cold edge

The band of "habitable by humans" is as wide as you could want. People live in Alaska and in Libya.

The problem is that stuff is adapted to the way things are. Alaskan trees, bugs, mail services and whatnot are all adapted to snow and ice and such. Bugs go dormant, mailmen hibernate. Libyan mailmen would freeze to death is they got Alaskan weather. Alaskan trees would die if they got Libyan weather. Crops would fail, etc.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#46

Post by Jamesbaxter29 »

adreamingsoul wrote: post #38
jefflombardjr wrote: post #2

Anyone fascinated by this article, I highly suggest reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. I just recently picked it up after seeing it recommended on a couple of threads here and it did not disappoint. Humans have been affecting ecology for a long long time. If you are like me, you're probably wondering what you can do to mitigate some of the effects, while legislation and societal action is important. I also recomme…

Instead of courses, I recommend to get a couple books on Permaculture and also look to see if any universities have extension courses for Permaculture or any topic related to it. Chances are, most of the teachers are now familiar with Permaculture and can speak to the “historical” methods and the “Permaculture” methods. Yes, a lot of people have been trying to make money of the cerificstion courses, which I think is…

What books do you recommend do a university student without much familiarity in the subject looking for practical design advice?

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#47

Post by TSiege »

This new research is definitely intriguing, but at the same time I think it's fair to be skeptical of this new science. During the times of increase in global temperatures, human populations are estimated to be between 5 to 20 million for the whole planet. That is a very low density. Not to mention human farming began before the Younger Dryas (a sudden return to cold temperatures), which briefly ended agriculture for over a millennia.

Also, during more recent times the earth has swung into cold spells that had dire consequences for human populations, such as the Little Ice Age which began in the 1300s and only ended during the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. It's likely Earth would have continued getting colder had it not been for the mass expelling of CO2 and methane into the atmosphere at that time.

So maybe humans had an impact on the global atmosphere during the second beginning of agriculture, but it's also possible other natural phenomena lead to an increase in CO2 and Methane that just haven't been discovered yet. And as a disclaimer, I personally believe that humans have had a major impact on shaping environments for as long as we inhabited them. I'm just a little skeptical until more research can solidify these findings and explain other changes in global temps in the opposite direction when there were more people and more intensive agriculture.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#48

Post by close04 »

whatshisface wrote: post #43
jemfinch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What agenda did you think he was pushing? I think you may be confusing "agenda" with "perspective". He was pushing one perspective: his own, as all authors do. But it's our job as readers to understand the author's perspective and recognize it as such. Neither history nor anthropology permits storytelling without a perspective. There's always a perspective. Reading for learning means understanding that perspective an…

> I think you may be confusing "agenda" with "perspective". He was pushing one perspective: his own, as all authors do. If you're used to science, it can come as a surprise that a person can willfully ignore (not just focus away from, ignore ), all but one option for an entire book, and it still be considered an intellectual effort as opposed to a sales pitch or campaign tool.

To be honest most of the times he lists the multiple concurrent theories and simply points out why he believes one of them to be closest to reality.

Of course, sometimes none of the theories can be proven or disproved. So unless you want to leave a black hole you simply choose the theory that fits best, with the risk of it being overturned in the future.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#49

Post by hinkley »

TSiege wrote: post #47

This new research is definitely intriguing, but at the same time I think it's fair to be skeptical of this new science. During the times of increase in global temperatures, human populations are estimated to be between 5 to 20 million for the whole planet. That is a very low density. Not to mention human farming began before the Younger Dryas (a sudden return to cold temperatures), which briefly ended agriculture for…

There’s some evidence that the Little Ice Age was caused by a sudden decrease in farm acreage cause by sudden depopulation during the Black Death.

I hesitate to call it anthropogenic because it’s the opposite of that. I suppose the delay of the cold period counts, though.

Re: Ancient farmers spared us from glaciers but changed Earth's climate: study

#50

Post by fiter »

jandrese wrote: post #31
gaius wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the downside to that strategy? It seems like a no-brainer at first glance

IIRC it was tested on a small scale and didn't work. Fish ate the algae before it could settle on the sea floor.

It may vary with scale. Similar to how swarming populations (cicadas) can saturate the local predators.
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