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The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

economist.com

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Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#41

Post by growlist »

simonh wrote: post #28
dalbasal wrote: post #22

This is a tangent, but I noticed how this line feels like it (almost) requires no further support: " liberal democracy’s current ills have opened an.. " While I'm not disagreeing, just don't recall reading a decent narration on what exactly is going on. What are liberal democracies' current ills? Did we agree on a list, when I wasn't looking?

There are some trends in current international relations that are worrying for many people who support liberal democratic principles. The failure of the Euro, which was a landmark liberal project. The Brexit vote in Britain. American protectionism. Russian political interference and military aggression. China's renewed suppression of individual liberties and its moves to export it's totalitarian and censorious princi…

You assert that the good Friday agreement is under threat due to Brexit; others might say that it is under threat due to Michel Barnier's game playing.

Edit: all I'm trying to point out here is that the parent's comment on GFA is merely an opinion, and there are opposing viewpoints also.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#42

Post by philliphaydon »

07d046 wrote: post #21

I've just started reading Silent Invasian: China's Influence in Australia, which made headlines around the world last year when its original publisher decided not to publish it out of fear of what the Chinese Communist Party and its proxies in Australia would react. That China has this sort of influence (see also all the airlines and hotels and other companies that bent over backwards to apologise for listing China a…

When ever I see people comment on the Philippines I wonder if they have any idea just what’s going on in the Philippines. I’m still yet to meet a single Filipino who does not like duterte.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#43

Post by _b8r0 »

blattimwind wrote: post #32
simonh wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some trends in current international relations that are worrying for many people who support liberal democratic principles. The failure of the Euro, which was a landmark liberal project. The Brexit vote in Britain. American protectionism. Russian political interference and military aggression. China's renewed suppression of individual liberties and its moves to export it's totalitarian and censorious princi…

The Euro has failed? That's news to me.

From the parent:

> By liberalism I do not mean socialism. I'm a lifelong Conservative voter.

From his perspective, the Euro has failed. But then again, this guy supports the party that caused Brexit, has decimated our healthcare system and is literally in power at the whim of a group of corrupt far-right religious nutjobs with direct links to terrorism (by which I mean the DUP, not the Conservative Party).

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#44

Post by cbzbc »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #33

This is a rather anemic entry in a 100-year-old genre. Westerners have been doom-mongering about the rise of China since at least the Boxer Rebellion. The FT ran a more informative and sober piece a week or two ago, on China's gambit to create a global energy network: https://www.ft.com/content/bdc31f94-68aa-11e8-b6eb-4acfcfb08...

Yes, generally with the economist ignore the editorials and read the news:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/1991/10/-quot...

As you say, doom-mongering about various parts of the world is a venerable genre and one which the Economist resorts to on a fairly regular basis (at least once a year there'll be scare pieces on China, and an article on why the French economy is doomed).

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#45

Post by lev99 »

sgift wrote: post #31
throw8185 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. I definitely support free speech (that should go without saying), but it seems to be spread with a fervor not unlike how Christianity was spread during colonization. For example, is the quality of life in Mexico--with free speech and democracy--better than one like Singapore or even China? There are also different ideals of free speech too. The US version is very different from the European vers…

Mexico doesn't have free speech in practice: If you speak out against the wrong people you get killed by the cartels. Also, we don't know what the quality of life in China is, because ... you cannot talk about things which are critical of the government. That is technically correct, but being allowed to criticize the government without getting send to a prison seems to be a common denominator, so we could start with…

> we don't know what the quality of life in China is, because ... you cannot talk about things which are critical of the government.

If you want to know what the quality of life is like in China you can visit China and meet people living there. Visas are easy to get. It's not a secret, and there are plenty of first hand accounts of even their darkest hours.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#46

Post by cbzbc »

07d046 wrote: post #21

I've just started reading Silent Invasian: China's Influence in Australia, which made headlines around the world last year when its original publisher decided not to publish it out of fear of what the Chinese Communist Party and its proxies in Australia would react. That China has this sort of influence (see also all the airlines and hotels and other companies that bent over backwards to apologise for listing China a…

Remember the 80s when the Japanese were going to take over the world, and pulp novelists turned out airport thrillers in which the villain was a Japanese businessman?

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#47

Post by seanmcdirmid »

coldtea wrote: post #34
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pundits are more than happy to criticize their own countries or (in this case) their allies. You won’t find many Economist articles going easy on the UK or USA. They are just giving China equal treatment, and it is only Chinese insecurity that must bring up the USA in any talk about it (in contrast, you won’t find people talking about China when reviewing articles about US aggression).

> You won’t find many Economist articles going easy on the UK or USA. On the contrary, I find Economist playing the anglosaxon party line in almost any international issue.

Do you read the economist often? If you go to the current issue, how many negative articles about the USA and UK can you count? It ain’t zero, heck, just by the counts alone it is easy to argue that the economist is softer on China than it is on the UK and USA.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#48

Post by nwatson »

baybal2 wrote: post #25

After meeting not one, but now around ~15 CCP members/officials of different statures in the party hierarchy. I can say that indeed a lot of things that drive the current generation of CCP's "hereditary nobility" (people in late forties to ~55 now) are manifestations of their social ineptness and insecurity. Their comparison to frailing 19th century European nobility, I think, is totally appropriate. What they afraid…

Thank you for this insight ... could you guess or know how many of these CCP functionaries, in spite of their insecurity, pursue their duty in good faith, versus engaging in self-dealing etc.?

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#49

Post by lev99 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #26
saagarjha wrote: post #3

I'd argue that a government is supposed to fear its citizens. It's just not supposed to censor them and take away their rights to quell that fear: rather, it should hold itself accountable and not do things that would cause resentment.

Since China lacks real elections, the only way for a Chinese citizen to hold their government accountable is to protest or revolt. In the west, citizens can simply “vote the turkeys out”, which, by just rendering the politician unemployed, is less violent and often results in peaceful transitions. The definition of “fear” is then just very different.

Democracy doesn't guarantee peaceful transfer of power. The absence of democracy does not guarantee violent transfer of power.

Re: The Chinese Communist Party’s fear of its people spells trouble

#50

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nwatson wrote: post #48
baybal2 wrote: post #25

After meeting not one, but now around ~15 CCP members/officials of different statures in the party hierarchy. I can say that indeed a lot of things that drive the current generation of CCP's "hereditary nobility" (people in late forties to ~55 now) are manifestations of their social ineptness and insecurity. Their comparison to frailing 19th century European nobility, I think, is totally appropriate. What they afraid…

Thank you for this insight ... could you guess or know how many of these CCP functionaries, in spite of their insecurity, pursue their duty in good faith, versus engaging in self-dealing etc.?

It is really hard to get promoted as an idealistic CCP functionary, so if anyone makes it to the somewhat upper stages, they will most definitely be in on whatever their peers are doing (meaning, they have enough dirt so that their peers don’t have to worry about them ratting them out, and they will put on great shows to please anyone higher than them so they can keep getting promoted). In the west, it is like finding an honest politician: they might exist, but they simply don’t win elections enough that you can really find them in higher offices you pay attention to.
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