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How I tried to get into game development and failed

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Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#41

Post by Domenic_S »

swat17 wrote: post #20
stevenwoo wrote: post #2

It's more like he saw a type of game that made a lot of money that seemed not that technologically advanced and thought he could replicate the monetary success and this part was like a lot of apps - it's not the making of the app that is hard - it's making an app that people want/need to use in numbers to support the development. I mean no disrespect because his team did succeed in producing an online only game so th…

It seems so obvious reading his post that he went at this backwards. The basic idea of developing and iterating on a lightweight MVP is completely absent. I'm genuinely curious - because I see this error replicated all the time when engineers try to take a side project to market - why otherwise rational people do this. This approach is obviously doomed to failure. I understand that as programmers we enjoy solving tec…

I know like 2 engineers who are really, really good at coming at problems from a business perspective and I know like 70 who work the way you describe.

Maybe it's because if you acknowledge the business as the most important, then engineering is only a means to an end and not important. I think that's an error in reasoning, but it makes some sense.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#42

Post by amelius »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #16
amelius wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to an 'o game', which is output only, i.e., just a movie.

Or an 'i game', a game that takes only input and provides no feedback. Like waving your hands in the air and pretending you are playing a VR game; or a Karate kata.

Or air-guitar.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#43

Post by dvt »

I don't mean to be dismissive, but here are the main issues I see with the process (and the final product):

- Bottom line, the game is not particularly fun, novel, or difficult. You'll notice that games like Flappy Bird, Agar.io, Papers Please, etc. are at least one of the three. Bist.io is not the type of game that will ever go viral.

- You spent money on AdWords but didn't spend money on sponsored Youtube, Instagram, or Twitch content? To me, this just shows a fundamental disconnect with your target audience (gamers).

- You should never polish a multi-player game until extensive play-testing. Single player games are a bit different, but with multiplayer games it's the mechanics that sell it. If the mechanics aren't fun, polish doesn't matter. Case in point: H1Z1 and PUBG. Awfully optimized, and generally terrible lag, but still massively fun and massively successful.

- Too much premature optimization. Having your servers blow up is a good thing. Don't worry about preventing the blow up until you get there. In other words, you spent too much time on load balancing, etc. This is the canonical reason good engineers make bad business decisions.

Going into something (even games) to make the big bucks is perfectly fine, imo, but, in short, your game just isn't very good and you have no idea who your audience is. You added "social" buttons because it's the "thing you're supposed to do" but omitted Twitch and Steam? You're not on IndieDB or TIGSource?

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#44

Post by eterm »

naiyt wrote: post #4
stevenwoo wrote: post #2

It's more like he saw a type of game that made a lot of money that seemed not that technologically advanced and thought he could replicate the monetary success and this part was like a lot of apps - it's not the making of the app that is hard - it's making an app that people want/need to use in numbers to support the development. I mean no disrespect because his team did succeed in producing an online only game so th…

Yeah, I'm at the part where he's implementing lag compensation before even building a fun prototype for the game. Seems very backwards. (This problem may very well be addressed later in the post, still working my way through it. It's an interesting article.)

He also says that Carmack re-wrote the quake network engine which is true, but links to and focuses on Valve's lag-compensation which went far further than what quakeworld did.

The quake re-write was Quakeworld[1], which didn't have valve's lag compensation for shooting. The crucial thing that quakeworld did was de-couple client and server for movement. The result was that when you fired you would see your shot locally, but any effects from that such as blood wouldn't be seen until you got a response from the server. You would still have to lead your shots (shoot ahead of moving enemies) in quakeworld to hit on a modem.

Even Half-life (based on the Quake 1 engine) didn't have valve's lag compensation until the half-life 1.1 patch in 2000, two years after half-life was first released.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeWorld

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#45

Post by lotyrin »

Danihan wrote: post #37
lotyrin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a specific genre of webgame though, something is or is not an "io game" it's more than where it's hosted, it's more than whether or not it's an HTML5 game or multiplayer. A genre is precisely a collection of artistic attributes that occur and are repeated mostly as a historical accident (usually after a pioneer explores the space and follow-ups revisit) and are shared among a collection of works -- they are hard…

Sure, you're right overall, I just didn't think the *.io game arena was large enough or unique enough to merit that term being used. Also it's just a bad name in general, since those style games can be hosted anywhere.

Genre names never are any good. You can't usually distil the detail of what makes a genre into a formula, and you can't distil that formula into a short enough descriptor.

"Rock" for instance.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#46

Post by smaddox »

Matheus28 wrote: post #21
Shorel wrote: post #3

Please, don't use the term 'an io game'. It really makes no sense.

I'm the guy that made Agar.io, and I personally hate that term, but I don't think we'll ever win the war of getting people to stop calling those browser MMO games "io games"

Great game. Was it a side project, or were you a full time game dev?

And what about now after its success? Did it provide enough income to pursue whatever you want full time?

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#47

Post by disease »

dvt wrote: post #43

I don't mean to be dismissive, but here are the main issues I see with the process (and the final product): - Bottom line, the game is not particularly fun, novel, or difficult. You'll notice that games like Flappy Bird, Agar.io, Papers Please, etc. are at least one of the three. Bist.io is not the type of game that will ever go viral. - You spent money on AdWords but didn't spend money on sponsored Youtube, Instagra…

I think your first point is the one that matters the most. The primary thing you should be thinking about here is "how compelling is this going to be to the intended audience?"

If you can get to the point where you can hammer out a game in a weekend, which isn't that difficult, I'd suggest building a simple game that showcases the concept that you find compelling and submit it a game jam like Ludum Dare. You're going to get a bunch of people playing it and you'll be able to see if they respond to the concept.

If they do, then go ahead and make a larger version of the game. If not, well it just costed you a weekend anyway.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#48

Post by brjacobs »

Matheus28 wrote: post #21
Shorel wrote: post #3

Please, don't use the term 'an io game'. It really makes no sense.

I'm the guy that made Agar.io, and I personally hate that term, but I don't think we'll ever win the war of getting people to stop calling those browser MMO games "io games"

I taught at a summer camp that had a curriculum focused on playing and modding Minecraft. One of the biggest challenges we faced was getting the kids to stop playing Agar.io for long enough to play Minecraft.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#49

Post by kbenson »

swat17 wrote: post #20
stevenwoo wrote: post #2

It's more like he saw a type of game that made a lot of money that seemed not that technologically advanced and thought he could replicate the monetary success and this part was like a lot of apps - it's not the making of the app that is hard - it's making an app that people want/need to use in numbers to support the development. I mean no disrespect because his team did succeed in producing an online only game so th…

It seems so obvious reading his post that he went at this backwards. The basic idea of developing and iterating on a lightweight MVP is completely absent. I'm genuinely curious - because I see this error replicated all the time when engineers try to take a side project to market - why otherwise rational people do this. This approach is obviously doomed to failure. I understand that as programmers we enjoy solving tec…

> why otherwise rational people do this.

Because rational people aren't really rational, they're just slightly more rational that other people in certain aspects. It's really hard to actually see what biases are in your assumptions, and you have to assume quite a lot to get through every day.

> Are we just too absorbed in our craft to see the forest for the trees, and we mis-prioritize as a result?

It's easy to assume the thing you know how to fix has a big impact on success, because the alternative is often scary unless you've cultivated the correct mindset. Even after you've cultivated that mindset, it's easy to not realize you apply it to some portions of your life and not others, or even some problems and not others in the same area.

Re: How I tried to get into game development and failed

#50

Post by handzhiev »

I was expecting a post about business side of things, instead it was a post about how to program the game from someone who started without having any idea how it will attract players. Kind of meh. At least you got a good (but expensive) lesson: the game idea and programming is nothing on its own.
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