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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

lse.ac.uk

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#391

Post by sideway »

asdff wrote: post #311
sideway wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays, it's usually not the lack of aircons that is a problem in greek households. Compared to local wages, energy prices have risen so much that lots of people cannot afford to keep their aircons on.

How are public spaces in greece? Any large "free" sources of AC? Homeless in the US sometimes use this method to avoid severe heat exposure, hanging out in say a mall, public library, airport bag claim, staying underground in the subway system, or riding an air conditioned bus around.

If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say Greece doesn't think about these types of public spaces as much as other countries do and the ones that do exist are probably a bit hostile towards the homeless.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#392

Post by preisschild »

zarzavat wrote: post #206
crote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment! Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly…

An AC unit essentially requires just a small hole in the wall and a bracket to hold the compressor unit. Europeans have walls don't they? I'm European and I have a wall that could host an AC unit. The barrier is regulatory not engineering.

Not an engineering problem, but installing a good (not the mobile AC with the flimsy fabric window seal) AC is not easy in a lot of cases. You need the OK from your landlord and since you mount something on the exterior you also need the OK of many neighbors.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#393

Post by CalRobert »

Arodex wrote: post #366
asdff wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can open a window at all you can run a portable AC unit. Even just 3-4 inches is enough.

That's a perfectly good way to waste kW of energy every day and make the heat outside worse.

It may waste energy, but if so, it's wasting y kwh of energy per day (or joules), at a probably-variably rate of x kw, where y is x * 24 (for kwh)

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#394

Post by preisschild »

asdff wrote: post #285
crote wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all means install an AC unit to deal with the worst of it. Just install shades as well when you've got the scaffolding out so you can install a smaller, cheaper, and less energy-hungry one. Unfortunately I personally live in a highrise, and in a rental unit, so that "small hole and a bracket" definitely isn't an option for everyone.

If you can open a window at all you can run a portable AC unit. Even just 3-4 inches is enough.

You'd have to have your windows open at all times with only a thin fabric blocking the opening to do that with most european windows. And then you still have your compressor inside generating heat.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#395

Post by nikanj »

leononame wrote: post #308
nikanj wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans say ”Americans xxx while the French yyy” all the time. Member states should be compared to member states, or the US to the EU.

A US state is not a country. I get that there is a lot of federalism in the US and that states often have different laws and regulations, but the same is true for European countries. You can compare the US to Germany, or Sourh Carolina to Bavaria, by your own logic.

You can compare all of the US to just a suburb of Paris, if you insist on making stupid comparisons, but lumping all member states into one monolith is pointless both ways. Oregon is incredibly different from Florida, and so is France from Romania

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#396

Post by preisschild »

ianm218 wrote: post #189
crote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment! Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly…

This is completely ridiculous you just need to let people use AC properly and it will solve most of the problem with people dying. That doesn’t mean you need to go from place to place in AC or never be out of AC, but every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially. Another thing that would help is if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction so th…

> Another thing that would help is if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction so that people could build new buildings with central AC that matches the current reality of its climate and demographics, rather than the climate and demographics of last millennium.

Agreed. I live in an apartment complex finished in 2020 and they have no provisions for AC, really not optimal. At least add provisions for holes so renters can easily install a mini split.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#397

Post by tpm »

zarzavat wrote: post #206
crote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment! Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly…

An AC unit essentially requires just a small hole in the wall and a bracket to hold the compressor unit. Europeans have walls don't they? I'm European and I have a wall that could host an AC unit. The barrier is regulatory not engineering.

You also need an electric wire/fuse with a certain capacity and not every house has that, esp. when it's old, they cook and heat with gas; worse if the cabling etc. up to the property has to be updated too. And this might sound trivial but if it's a block of flats and every flat installs at least one AC unit all of this adds up to huge additional demand which is far far more than a small hole.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#398

Post by tpm »

simplyinfinity wrote: post #360
asdff wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can open a window at all you can run a portable AC unit. Even just 3-4 inches is enough.

European windows open sideways not up and down. So we can't just stick an ac unit on the window.

Yes you can (I've got one), there are various window seals to adapt to that or you can dyi too. The noise etc make it a temporary solution at best but it's possible.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#399

Post by tpm »

CalRobert wrote: post #376
adrianN wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooling buildings with air-water heat pumps like you would use to replace an oil or gas furnace doesn't work very well.

Yes, which is why we should stop installing them and use air to air heat pumps instead, which do both. Bonus - you can throw your bulky, ugly radiators out too!

They are noisy though and many people including me would hate air heating, my airways suffer enough already.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#400

Post by ericd »

mc32 wrote: post #57
rcvassallo83 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficient window unit? Best of the best is about 15-16 SEER That's entry level central HVAC efficiency Minisplits are far higher, 20+

If I don't have $30K to $50K to invest in an HVAC for the home, the next best is a relatively efficient Window unit that costs low hundreds and will help me stay alive in the heat. However enticing the price of a single duct portable unit is, do not buy it. It's a complete waste. If you go portable, go with the dual ducted one --but it's still not as good as a Window unit (which I would hope is obviously less efficie…

Our mini split cost $3k, and it was on the relatively expensive end of options, there were many <$1k.
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