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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

lse.ac.uk

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#181

Post by inigyou »

lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

I wonder what the global temperature rise would be right now if everyone in Europe had air conditioning since it was invented. Probably about half a degree hotter - so about two degrees total warming?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#184

Post by alephnerd »

sph wrote: post #169
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

[flagged]

> To hear Americans jump at the chance to comment about Europeans and their AC usage

A lot of Americans would be indifferent if it wasn't for Europeans (mostly Germans ime - Southern, Central, and Eastern Europeans are indifferent to supportive) who often try to act all superior about not using ACs or heat pumps because they supposedly "cause colds" or are somehow "unnatural" or try to make it a moral action despite a large portion of Americans using GreenTech to subsidize AC spend.

TBH, a lot of distaste Americans have for "Europeans" is basically a distaste for DACH residents weird sense of superiority (especially racial - you guys don't realize it but you tend to treat Black, Asian, and Hispanic Americans negatively until we wave our passport and Amex Gold/Plat). Most other Europeans are much more pleasant to be around with.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#185

Post by rwmj »

reenorap wrote: post #175
sph wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Sorry what? There's no reason that you can't install AC in your home/office in Europe, and many are doing so. It just hasn't been needed very much til recently.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#186

Post by jerlam »

lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

The US is generally much closer to the equator and warmer than Europe, hence air conditioning has been a requirement for much longer.

https://vividmaps.com/comparing-latitude-of-europe-and-ameri...

US states like Texas and Florida have no latitude equivalent in Europe. Los Angeles is farther south than all of Spain.

At the same time, the UK, much of Germany, and Poland are farther north than any state in the US lower 48.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#187

Post by thayne »

xoa wrote: post #82
mylifeandtimes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on. And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc. "just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.

> And it raises the heat outside of buildings. No it doesn't. Seriously, where does this meme even come from? It should be pretty obvious just from a solar insolation map that AC is just noise vs the sun. The energy usage is tiny vs vehicles or non-heat pump heating and only electric. What changes temperature overall is the balance of thermal retention by the atmosphere vs radiation into space, hence why net increase…

The way AC works is by transferring heat from one place (inside) to somewhere else (outside), and it takes energy to do this which produces even more heat, which is generally in the outside part of the AC system. This isn't something you can engineer away either, it's a result of the second law of thermodynamics.

Is that increase small compared to other things, like surfaces that absorb more solar radiation? Maybe. It depends on a lot of factors, but the amount it increases the heat of the outside is certainly non-zero.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#188

Post by kaonwarb »

pinkgolem wrote: post #164
oceanplexian wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live a few hours outside Las Vegas and it's a lot more survivable than you would think given primitive technology and some knowledge. I have one of those portable evaporative coolers and they don't need much power (50-100W). I have one and measured ~110F input and 78F on the output side using nothing more than water and a fan, pretty remarkable. The trick is staying out of direct sunlight, and the body can cool its…

I mean... I need ~120 watt an hour to keep the house between 20-23 C.

In Nevada?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#189

Post by ianm218 »

crote wrote: post #178
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

Well yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment! Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly…

This is completely ridiculous you just need to let people use AC properly and it will solve most of the problem with people dying. That doesn’t mean you need to go from place to place in AC or never be out of AC, but every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially.

Another thing that would help is if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction so that people could build new buildings with central AC that matches the current reality of its climate and demographics, rather than the climate and demographics of last millennium.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#190

Post by inigyou »

deadbabe wrote: post #183

This may be overly simplistic, but if we shut down the AMOC would that help Europe balance out the temps and solve its heat problems?

It'll be -20 Celsius in winter and +40 Celsius in summer and everyone will die in both seasons so yes, no more heat problem when everyone dies.
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