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Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#371

Post by bob1029 »

crote wrote: post #218
quotemstr wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blindly putting AC everywhere ... actually works just fine. How do you think mass AC adoption in the US happened? Window units work just fine. Fancy splits and central ducting can come later. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

Look at the population graph of a city like Las Vegas. It basically didn't exist before the invention of AC. Window units don't work in most of Europe because our windows aren't compatible with them. If they were, I would have one . And again, it doesn't solve the core cause. If you want to cool down your home, your first step should be to stop heat from entering . If you can get the same result from €900 of shades a…

I've got a concentric dual hose unit from Midea that I use in emergencies when my central unit is out. I just put the hose through the dog flap on the back door when I run it. I'm sure you could figure out a solution if you actually wanted to be comfortable.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#372

Post by sph »

ActorNightly wrote: post #203
sph wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> us simply cannot have AC Im really curious how this works. Do standalone units not exist?

Some people rent. Some people can't afford one. Some people, like me, are in a short-term let in a country where it doesn't make sense to buy appliances if you're to leave after a few weeks.

Now that I had to explain my personal living arrangement, am I please excused from the constant nagging about europoors and their stupid hangups about AC?

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#373

Post by sph »

lwansbrough wrote: post #346
sph wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I realize you're aiming at Americans in general, but I'm Canadian. Most developed countries outside of Europe have AC readily available these days. The governance is a reflection of the people. Same can be said about the Americans.

> I realize you're aiming at Americans in general, but I'm Canadian.

Same difference.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#374

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

PeterStuer wrote: post #309
crote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment! Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly…

We have had heatwaves in Europe forever. The thing is people were used to adapting to them with shades and night/morning ventilation, and shifting their activities out of the hottest part of the day. This somehow seems to be beyond today's population and society. How dare this weather impact my schedule!

Thing is that the median person used to be able to own a house with walls of relatively thick stone instead of being forced to live in bug nests designed for energy efficiency (mostly keeping heat, not warding it off) instead of human comfort.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#375

Post by apexalpha »

CalRobert wrote: post #238
lwansbrough wrote: post #9

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths. By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

The most bizarre thing to me is that here in the Netherlands I can get a subsidy for a heat pump if it heats radiators, but not if it’s a multi split air to air heat pump. Because the latter also happens to be an air conditioner. It makes no sense. And then the same people who moralise air conditioning will burn tons of gas all winter for heat. Oh, and sensible design choices like eaves that block light from windows…

Look at the SPOT prices tonight and you'll understand the resistance to subsidizing airconditioning.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#376

Post by CalRobert »

adrianN wrote: post #341
radishingr wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By switching from burning Russian hydrocarbons for heat to heat pumps so you can heat and cool while being more efficient? This isn't a rebuild, it is a moderate adaptation to the actual requirements to live in the Europe of today. For steam based heat systems there is also cooling options, so that is a fix for those cities with central heat service.

Cooling buildings with air-water heat pumps like you would use to replace an oil or gas furnace doesn't work very well.

Yes, which is why we should stop installing them and use air to air heat pumps instead, which do both.

Bonus - you can throw your bulky, ugly radiators out too!

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#377

Post by CalRobert »

apexalpha wrote: post #375
CalRobert wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most bizarre thing to me is that here in the Netherlands I can get a subsidy for a heat pump if it heats radiators, but not if it’s a multi split air to air heat pump. Because the latter also happens to be an air conditioner. It makes no sense. And then the same people who moralise air conditioning will burn tons of gas all winter for heat. Oh, and sensible design choices like eaves that block light from windows…

Look at the SPOT prices tonight and you'll understand the resistance to subsidizing airconditioning.

Fair - good reason to use solar and batteries too.

The cynical side of me almost wonders if the current approach is designed to reduce health care and pension costs by disincentivizing installation of a technology that saves elderly people.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#378

Post by mschild »

lwansbrough wrote: post #349
mschild wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price, mostly, isn't the issue. Living in Germany, rental apartments simply don't have AC. Even luxury apartments that are 4k+ per month typically dont. Thats changing very slowly but still a long way to go. A lot of landlords simply don't give a shit as they're not required to install one and since there is a housing shortage, good luck convincing them of anything. Even if you own your apartment, installing a split…

You can buy a portable unit for like 300e and seal the window with a piece of plexiglass with a hole in it. It's a pretty low barrier.

Sort of. We dont have sliding windows. Windows tilt in Germany so it's a weird shape you need to close up. Portable ACs come with a mesh cover that works OK but its not as good as a properly sealed window. They're also significantly less efficient and much louder.

Midea has released the Porta split a few hears ago which was a game changer for many people. I currently have one cooling the bedroom.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#379

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

inigyou wrote: post #182
reenorap wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There's no European law against AC. It's just expensive energy because it's got carbon taxes in it.

At least here in France, there are laws about energy efficiency (RT 2012) of new constructions practically forbidding AC. The loophole used by people with a brain is to install a "can be made reversible later" AC and to enable the cold function later on.

Re: Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

#380

Post by mschild »

Semaphor wrote: post #359
PeterStuer wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In plenty of rental accomodation you are not even allowed to put a nail in the wall to hang a picture from.

I don't think forbidding that is legal in Germany

Its not.

But making a hole in the wall to the outside is. That would generally be considered a permanent change and requires approval from landlord and in case the apartment building has multiple owners, approval from those as well

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