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A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

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Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can live in a well-insulated fully electric home powered by renewable energy and have most things you need within a walk, bike, or public transport ride away, _OR_ use an electric car for the things that aren't. For this to be the most effective it really needs to be deployed somewhere like India. How are they coming along with that?

> For this to be the most effective it really needs to be deployed somewhere like India Why? Most people there already live like that, minus insulation and reliable electricity.

Because they are likely not living like that by choice. So, when they have the resources to consume more (which will certainly happen), energy-efficient choices need to be available.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capital needs to understand it’s in its interest to fix the problem and it will be fixed You’re looking at Capital as a monolithic block. The problem is that the majority of the Capital at the moment sits with the block that can only function by burning more fossil fuels and mowing down the last of the forests to extract natural resources. The private equity firm that owns private beach resorts will never be able t…

Since 1990, global deforestation has improved by 50%. It is still net negative, but the rate of net loss is way down from 100 years ago.

Thats not a positive. Its like you’re falling from the sky, reach terminal velocity and celebrating that you’re not falling any faster.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capital needs to understand it’s in its interest to fix the problem and it will be fixed You’re looking at Capital as a monolithic block. The problem is that the majority of the Capital at the moment sits with the block that can only function by burning more fossil fuels and mowing down the last of the forests to extract natural resources. The private equity firm that owns private beach resorts will never be able t…

I don’t see it that way. Some see the invisible hand of the market but I just don’t, the involvement in politics… the purposeful shaping of public opinion that is against the public interest, capital has an interest and it’s making its interest felt. I’m pretty sure the burning fossil fuel and mowing down rainforest isn’t in the long term interest, I’m also sure that if I’m dumb enough to see this the people in contr…

Often people in control of capital are in the second half of their lives. They care about their bonuses this year, not some future inconvenience when they’re already dead.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For this to be the most effective it really needs to be deployed somewhere like India Why? Most people there already live like that, minus insulation and reliable electricity.

Because they are likely not living like that by choice. So, when they have the resources to consume more (which will certainly happen), energy-efficient choices need to be available.

Energy-efficient choices will make the same impact no matter where they're deployed. Arguably they'll have more impact in Western countries since they already emit more carbon.

"India (or China) has to do " is bullshit. Everyone has to do go lower carbon right now. Richer countries can afford more expensive technologies today so they should go first. By doing so they'll drive down the cost for everyone else.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#395
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, exactly what is the source of skepticism? We should define climate skepticism, to avoid indicting a strawman. I'd start with my definition, as someone with unorthodox views on climate that often place me at odds with progressives. It may be easier to start with the elements we agree on. Is the climate changing? Yes, obviously, visibly, measurably. Do human activities, including burning of coal and hydrocarbons,…

> And yeah, do invest in alternative sources and production of energy This right here, it should be a Manhattan Project level of urgency, but at global "Hail Mary" level of cooperation and effort. And the best part is that it's not like that investment is wasted -- it's foundational and will allow us to do incredible things with it. Meanwhile the President of the United States is actively cancelling such work and dou…

All Trump had to do was spend the tens of billions of dollars he has wasted on horseshit instead on a bunch of grifts with his buddies for slightly overpriced solar installs and he would go down in the history books as a revolutionary and visionary leader

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#396
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the Twitter campaign will find even more suckers to convince, and they will vote yet another Trump if not worse. The Internet was a mistake because it expected every person to become a paradigm of rationality, yet we are at the end of the day stupid hairless monkeys that can be easily swayed for the promise of a banana.

The mistake was not spending the first years of school teaching people to care about what is true, and also the tools for critical thinking to figure out what is real and how sure we are about it. I thought that already when I was a kid and saw that people do not care at all if their beliefs are correct, and because of that don't care about learning any critical thinking skills, but I wasn't convinced and thought may…

>The mistake was not spending the first years of school teaching people to care about what is true

I always love when people insist that schools should teach "Critical thinking"

Because they do. What did you learn in English class? What did you learn the days you were brought to the library in middle school to learn about how libraries worked?

If you took AP language and comp, you were given a very thorough education on how to construct a persuasive essay and therefore a pretty good education in how to evaluate a persuasive claim.

I learned this in bumbfuck nowhere that couldn't afford to heat the school.

It's like all the dumbasses who say "School should teach important skills like how to balance a checkbook or how to do your taxes" as if you don't learn addition, subtraction, and basic english literacy as part of your elementary school education.

You did learn those things, you are just expected to be able to read simple instructions and complete very simple tasks. You aren't supposed to need hand holding for filling out your check book and filling in 14 rows with data from another sheet for fucks sake.

The same people who whine about how school didn't teach them anything important sat next to me in precalc and learned how to calculate loans and interest and yet still sign up for absurd stupid car loans. They literally did not pay attention.

In reality, people don't learn those critical thinking skills because they ignore school. Their parents taught them that education is liberal brainwashing and that it shouldn't be trusted. Their experience is that school is useless because that's what parents and media told them so they didn't pay attention and now as adults they blame the schools and more media insists that it is the schools fault.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#397
post #331

Meh who cares? Let it all burn and flood. Earth gets a fresh start, and hopefully whatever "intelligent" species evolves to be dominant in the next 5-10 million years is a better custodian. Rinse and repeat until that's the case. Heck, who knows if this is actually the 1st or 100th iteration...

It took roughly 5 billion years to get where we are now. The sun will die in another 5 billion years. I don't think there's that many rolls of the dice left.

On the one hand, we're probably not faced with rolling back 5 billion years. More likely a few tens of thousands to tens of millions.

On the other ... the End of Time on Earth is quite probably far less than 5 billion years in the future, and quite possibly only a few hundred millions. Given the regeneration time of fossil fuels (tens to hundreds of millions of years, and possibly not even then if, e.g., the lignan hypothesis of coal formation is correct), time to evolve a future technological civilisation might not exist.

That's still excluding recovery of other mineral wealth, e.g., iron, copper, and other resources, many of which do date back billions of years (e.g., BIFs, banded iron formations, which date to the Great Oxygenation Event or subsequent eras, 1--3 billion years ago. Fortunately, iron is abundant, but rich ores are useful. The scarcity of other metals, particularly high-efficiency conductors (copper, silver, gold), and low-prevalence alloying elements (e.g., tin) could be far more problematic.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#398
post #289
post #32

I recently finished rewatching The Three Body Problem in which (spoilers follow) the world panics and goes into overdrive because an alien invasion is due in... 400 years. If the current climate trends continue, vast areas of the Earth may not be suitable for habitation within half that time, and we still can't seem to convince some people this is real. Granted I was a climate change skeptic myself until about 10 yea…

Except the threat isn’t clear to all and our tech tree in 400 year is likely to quell climate change

If I was a foreign adversary, I would be influencing elections to sabotage that tech tree as much as I could.

Brand climate science as “woke” and get the government to slash investment in non-performative research, monitoring, and development.

Instead, manipulate/lobby representatives into doubling or tripling investment in technologies that maintain the status quo, and incentivize/subsidize subpar solutions with public dollars.

All while your allies do the opposite and jump ahead.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#399
post #379
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rich, who have disproportionately contributed to the current crisis can buy and relocate to safety, while the poor will be hit the hardest.

Isn't that the ultimate reason to be rich? Isn't the ultimate incentive? The rich have built roads, infrastructure, done research and improve QoL for everyone. We payed them and they grew even more rich. And when the judgement day come, you are going to deny everything you have paid them? That was the whole contract! I get that we can't help but be dumb and consume and enable some entities to be so rich. But then we…

> The rich have built roads

No, the working class built the roads.

> infrastructure

No, the workers built the infrastructure.

> done research

No, the academics and researchers did that.

> improve QoL for everyone

Explain how Putin (Russia's riches man) improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how rich people like Epstein improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how Trump and Jared Kushner improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how the Koch family improves the QoL of everyone. Explain how Imelda Marcos, Pablo Escobar, Rupert Murdoch, Kim Jon Un, Bernie Madoff, Al Capone, Robert Mugabe, Silvio Berlusconi, Rodrigo Duerte, Peul Manafort, Viktor Bout, Hosni Mubarak, Mohammed bin Salman, Prince Andrew, Albert Thys ... Are these rich people improving the quality of life of everyone?

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#400
post #32

I recently finished rewatching The Three Body Problem in which (spoilers follow) the world panics and goes into overdrive because an alien invasion is due in... 400 years. If the current climate trends continue, vast areas of the Earth may not be suitable for habitation within half that time, and we still can't seem to convince some people this is real. Granted I was a climate change skeptic myself until about 10 yea…

If you do the calculation based on that stuff without feedback effects and CO2 goes from the present ~432 ppm to 600 ppm, then (disclaimer - AI used) you'd get approx 1.1 to 1.2C of warming based on basic radiative forcing alone. Which isn't really a lot to panic over in my opinion.

I mean you may get feedback making things worse or not as bad - that's a bit uncertain.

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