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China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

wsj.com

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Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#391

Post by senordevnyc »

andsoitis wrote: post #238
dluan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already been happening for years. Award winning faculty and scientists are fleeing US universities and institutions and setting up shop in China, often with more funding and talent available, and no McCarthyism accusations of being spies. It started officially in 2018 with the US Department of Justice's "China Initiative", which basically just allowed anyone to go on a witch hunt of Chinese and Chinese American…

> Award winning faculty and scientists are fleeing US universities and institutions and setting up shop in China, often with more funding and talent available, and no McCarthyism accusations of being spies. It started officially in 2018 with the US Department of Justice's "China Initiative", which basically just allowed anyone to go on a witch hunt of Chinese and Chinese American academics. While some of what you wri…

So we lost twenty thousand scientists of Chinese descent over roughly a decade, half of which went back to China? That seems horrible. Where’s the hyperbole?

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#392

Post by [deleted] »

rapsey wrote: post #310
tho3i2424234 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. India which was at that was relatively in a good economic state, should've been a industrial super-power. Except, the "benign" British scuttled not only industrialization, but India's own traditional education and social systems.

India has had many decades of independence. Their failings are their own.

[deleted]

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#393

Post by adamsb6 »

wordofx wrote: post #368
maxglute wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrelevant argument because how rich people (subjects we're talking about) live in rich areas (i.e. main cities) =/= how poor people live in poor areas. Frankly average Chinese poverty in T4+ villages is pretty quaint compared to seeing junkies everywhere. It's more humbling, not disturbing. Of course you can find statistical outlier crimes on social media, but daily life is not filled with the levels of social decay…

One of the benefits to China is the low drug use. But you’re blind if you can’t find insane amount of homeless people in Beijing or shanghai. Or that most people there are struggling. If you want to live with tunnel vision then it’s an amazing place to live. (Shanghai cos I didn’t live in any other city. Only travelled)

I guess I must be blind, I've never seen anyone identifiably homeless.

The government wouldn't allow encampments, so how can you even tell?

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#394

Post by tharkun__ »

ty6853 wrote: post #389
immibis wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see - you think harassment and privacy violation is free speech. Please stay away from Europe.

Cool so now free speech is reduced to anything not viewed as harassment. I think I will take your advice, that's dystopic and far worse than just your prior bullet points.

You can also just ask him if it's OK to do that and they're probably going to be OK with it.

And otherwise you simply ensure that you have more than IIRC 5? people in the photo because taking and publishing a photo of a group of people is not illegal.

Privacy and not being harassed and free speech are of course exactly where the rubber meets the road. There is an intersection and naturally people will have differing opinions as to where the line should be drawn. One can always come up with examples where favoring free speech will lead to really bad outcomes for someone and vice versa.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#395

Post by adamsb6 »

gildas wrote: post #202
jakeogh wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No worries though, Germany is raiding peoples houses for offending people online. Please spare me the "only for Holocaust deniers" thing.

I'm sorry but it's normal. You don't have the right to offend people online or not.

I find this extremely offensive.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#396

Post by therealpygon »

echelon wrote: post #83
neilv wrote: post #45

This is unfortunate, but understood. I worked in a university research spinout US-China multinational AI hardware startup, and (without getting into confidential information, but only speaking of general engineering practice) I can mention that both nations' government concerns could be barriers. And some rules can be counterproductive for the one making the rule, even from a competitive perspective -- not even turni…

> I hope that this sharing will continue and increase It will continue until they pass us. They're coming from behind, and releasing models as open source essentially wipes the board of hundreds of American startups. Growth hackers and solopreneurs like @levelsio can be nipping at the heels of $300M funded companies who poured all of their points into training models, making expensive mistakes, and overpaying for com…

That, and they tend to not let things like copyrights and patents stand in the way of innovation. It’s hard to imagine how much better off consumers, and how many more advancements in technology there would be, if we had reasonable time limits on copyrights and patents. Instead, we have things like “I drew a mouse and now you can’t for the next 100 years” and “I was the first person to change this equation slightly, so you can’t compress video like this for the next 20 years.”

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#397

Post by Fricken »

tw1984 wrote: post #366
tokioyoyo wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in China or Asia? Again we’re talking about top talent.

dude, being able to order takeaway junk food 24/7 to your significantly over priced high rise apartment completed 3 years ago with a designed life span of 30 years is not quality of life.

Beyond basic survival quality of life is 90% about the integrity of our human relationships and 10% other stuff.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#398

Post by crossroadsguy »

kasey_junk wrote: post #27

The interesting thing in this article isn’t that China is telling people to avoid the US for national security reasons. Many states, including the US have similar guidance to people who work in jobs sensitive to national security. What’s interesting is that China is viewing AI tech as a technology vital to their security.

I used to work for an American startup that dealt with quite some PII. We were forbidden from traveling to a laundry list of countries with work devices and were required (expected? I am not sure now) to inform the company if we travel to those countries even w/o work devices.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#399

Post by sepositus »

scrollaway wrote: post #318
sepositus wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I’m literally seeing the opposite. Had two people move from the EU last year due to free speech concerns.

And how are they doing now? Anyway I’m sure people can be in whatever bubble their algorithmic news gives them. At the end of the day, today, it’s shameful to be American and many of my American friends feel that shame right now. The same cannot be said for most European countries.

> Anyway I’m sure people can be in whatever bubble their algorithmic news gives them

> it’s shameful to be American and many of my American friends feel that shame right now. The same cannot be said for most European countries.

So you're proposing you are immune to a bubble? One of the people I referenced was _literally_ ashamed of the German government. It's happening on both sides.

I find the whole thing odd, to be honest. I had a ton of disagreements with the prior administration, and I think the way many things were handled was "shameful." However, I never once felt "ashamed" of being American. Administrations come and go. The will of the people is fickle and changes like the wind.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#400

Post by sepositus »

immibis wrote: post #241
sepositus wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, according to the two sources I'm familiar with, it's not necessarily the _current_ laws that are the most concerning, but rather the _direction_ things are heading.

In the past it was like: - You can't call people pedophiles unless it was proven in court. - You can't say black people are inferior. Since October 2023 it's like: - You can't call people pedophiles unless it was proven in court. - You can't say black people are inferior. - You can't say Israel is doing a genocide. And has remained there since. Is this what worries you?

History proves limiting free speech is a slippery slope. I can't speak for my EU friends, but for me, yes, it's very concerning to begin justifying why some speech is not OK.
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