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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#391

Post by Aachen »

mc32 wrote: post #284
berkes wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You describe pornography depicting underage people. I'm sure there's consensus on why that is bad. I was, however, questioning whether minors consuming pornography is (always, and/or provably) bad.

Do you think there is or isn't deleterious effects when children watch misogyny at a young age, what about watching programming that would show the beating of animals, even if animated and just for "fun", or programming that shows being "fat" is undesirable and indulging in bulimia is desirable (what could be wrong with over-eating and then just vomiting excess, right?) No, I think there are things young minds should…

You're making false equations

GP: is X actually harmful?

You: a specific subset of X is, as well as entirely unrelated topic Y, don't you think? Clearly this should be prohibited

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#393

Post by loeg »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #359
loeg wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't read GP's mind, but sugar doesn't require ID verification to buy in the state of Utah, for example.

No, but driving a car or possessing a gun does. Different solutions for different issues is hardly a contentious proposal.

Earlier you were concerned about the possible risk of addiction. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35788237

Are cars or guns regulated because of addiction? No. So GP compared porn to sugar, which is considered addictive and has probably more concrete evidence of self-harm than porn. I think the comparison is apt? Certainly fairer than comparing porn to driving a car or gun possession, which is sort of absurd.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#394

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

Eisenstein wrote: post #242
theclansman wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like in our society we're always beta testing everything before researching its effects, shouldn't we research the effects of internet pornography in kids before allowing them unlimited access to it? I think the same thing should be done with social media. There's obviously a thin line where you have to use common sense (where do we start and where do we stop?) but the consensus has always been that this is ad…

> shouldn't we research the effects of internet pornography in kids before How do you propose we do that ethically?

I suspect the effects are mental/emotional and a research team may not be conducting statistical research like group A/group B types of studies but there could be value in research on current 18-25 year olds, their social/mental/emotional well being and gathering info on how early they may have consumed it, frequency, along with rates of clinical disorders. Surveys or research on college campuses would probably be the easiest method of gathering data for that age group.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#395

Post by ndriscoll »

hhjinks wrote: post #208
berkes wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is pornography dangerous for minors? Has it been researched? What "dangers" are there? Do these apply to all age groups of "minors"?

I think it's perfectly fine to assume that pornography might warp a child's view of sex and intimacy. The solution shouldn't be to force people to identify themselves, though. Parents have all the tools they need to shield their children from pornhub, if they so wish.

I'm not really a fan of the solution (something more along the lines of the v-chip where commercial sites in the US are required to identify their content categories in a standard way so browsers could be configured to block it seems like a better solution), and sites like pornhub are straightforward enough to include in blocking software, but currently sites like Reddit present a problem. Looking at recent dumps[0], it looks like ~40% of posts on Reddit are marked nsfw, but those posts are on the same domain as things like /r/teenagers and /r/roblox. Without a MITM proxy, parents can't really block the porn half of the site unless they block the whole thing.

[0] https://files.pushshift.io/reddit/submissions/

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#396

Post by honkycat »

padobson wrote: post #375
wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

Is there a mechanism for empowering a polity to protect minors from certain things the polity deems they're not ready for that doesn't rely on arbitrary rules?

Why do we need a policy? Why aren't parents doing basic things like setting up content filters?

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#397

Post by [deleted] »

newswasboring wrote: post #348
eldritch_4ier wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s probably about as dangerous to minors as sitting the minor in a room while 2 consenting adults have sex, or taking that minor to a strip club. Does the screen itself prevent trauma? Would you be ok with having your child exposed to either of these? What about a gentle and loving uncle molesting a child in a way not much different from playful wrestling? Wrestling is fine, but we all recognize the molestation is…

> It’s probably about as dangerous to minors as sitting the minor in a room while 2 consenting adults have sex, or taking that minor to a strip club. I think you have not seen the average porn online these days. Its way, way more extreme than this.

[deleted]

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#398

Post by woeirua »

Aachen wrote: post #340
woeirua wrote: post #302

It makes no sense to me that every physical store in a state must check IDs if you want to buy porn or alcohol, but porn websites can just let anyone in without checking ID. There are legitimate privacy concerns with checking ID online, but I think it’s way past time that the government does something to restrict the supply of porn to minors via the internet. The same with social media. The evidence that social media…

I've never seen an adult store check age in the Netherlands. Children just aren't interested until they're ready for it. I assume a store owner is legally in the clear when serving a five year old, even if in practice they would ask for their caretaker's phone number and send them home. Is that actually required and enforced in the USA?

Yes.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#399

Post by coldpie »

arp242 wrote: post #323
coldpie wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There could be some future in which computer security actually exists, but I just don't see our industry going in that direction right now. In any case, that technology doesn't exist now so the options today, with this law in effect, are as I stated.

Some systems do exists though, for example IRMA: https://privacybydesign.foundation/irma-explanation/ – I do think IRMA suffers from some issues, but options do exist. If there are no laws then there is no pressure to create technology, and if there's no technology we can't create good laws. It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing innit? It's hard to tell where the future will go, but I will bet we will see more of the…

No, these systems do not and cannot exist today. There is no such thing as computer security[1]. We may get there some day, decades from now. But today, if your data is on a networked computer, it should be treated as public.

[1] Every day there is a new headline proving this. Here is today's: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/05/t-mob...

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#400

Post by djha-skin »

taylodl wrote: post #190

An identity provider can make verified age one of the claims on an OAuth token. It removes anonymity, but at least you don't have to provide your personal details to everybody on the internet demanding age verification. You provide those details to your trusted identity provider, they provide the claim of your age to the website. With that in place we can easily make beer, liquor, marijuana and tobacco sales on the i…

A much better solution than was suggested by PornHub:

> PornHub said that a better solution is to identify users by their device.

Fingerprinting is not and should not be the sanctioned way of identifying people. On the engineering side, it is a horrible hack. On the ethical side, it is much worse to (attempt to) fingerprint since it tells PornHub waaay more than just age.

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