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China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

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Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#391

Post by nedsma »

blindspot557 wrote: post #389
nedsma wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP can try painting whatever picture they like. It's obvious from many angles that they're building concentration camps where people are forced to prison labor, organ harvesting and brainwashing. And then there are regular prisons. The whataboutism you're trying to push into the discussion isn't leading anywhere. I'm sure you'll find plenty of opportunities to discuss the US prison system, but this isn't one. He…

I don't see this article mentioned anything on organ harvesting. Please don't spread rumors. Even if the target is CCP doesn't give you the righteousness to assume without evidence. And "everybody knows that" is not a qualified evidence.

Those are not rumors. https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u...

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#392

Post by amelius »

franga2000 wrote: post #373
fsflover wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if it’s in there, it won’t be enforced. Please stop spreading learned helplessness. Problems are solved in baby steps. You start with legislation. Without it, nothing will proceed.

I don't see their comment as hopeless, but more as a necessary shift of target. We can demand all we want, but as long as we can't survive without them, we have no leverage. Punish businesses for violations in their supply chain and make them move production back home. Only then can you start demanding. Orange Man tried to skip the first step and you see how well that worked...

Why call it a shift of target?

If I have to get groceries, but to do that I have to put on my shoes first, is that then a shift of target?

We just have to make sure that in X years, the trade agreements have been updated. We can leave the rest to the politicians.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#393

Post by martythemaniak »

heymijo wrote: post #219
martythemaniak wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A really good "code smell" for political bullshit is when a person or idea is simultaneously an ineffectual loser and a grave, powerful, insidious force. Closely related to the notion that the leader is simultaneously both a powerful winner and a powerless victim. "cancel culture" here is both powerful and dangerous enough to bring down Western civilization, yet so laughably weak it cannot even pretend to solve real…

I first heard this idea articulated in Umberto Eco's article on Ur-Fascism or Eternal Fascism [0,1]. First link is the abridged list. The second is a full feature article. From Point #8 "by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak" [0] http://interglacial.com/pub/text/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fasci... [1] https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

I started reading that article, it's good, thanks.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#394

Post by franga2000 »

amelius wrote: post #392
franga2000 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see their comment as hopeless, but more as a necessary shift of target. We can demand all we want, but as long as we can't survive without them, we have no leverage. Punish businesses for violations in their supply chain and make them move production back home. Only then can you start demanding. Orange Man tried to skip the first step and you see how well that worked...

Why call it a shift of target? If I have to get groceries, but to do that I have to put on my shoes first, is that then a shift of target? We just have to make sure that in X years, the trade agreements have been updated. We can leave the rest to the politicians.

Because trade agreements are simply the wrong target. Even without a trade agreement with China, companies would still use Chinese parts if it were cheaper. Through things like blatant tax evasion, countless privacy violations and the like, companies have shown that they value money over absolutely everything, including the law.

We can put whatever we want in the trade agreements and it won't matter. But if the companies are held accountable for their supply chain through high fines and things like even license suspensions, they will work to solve the problem because it's in their interest.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#395

Post by read_if_gay_ »

dwaltrip wrote: post #383
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it was the hip thing to do.

...Is your username using “gay” as an insult? I get it is “playful”, but a playful insult is still an insult. If so, I kindly encourage you to consider a new username. It is sad to see people slurred just based on who they are.

Well thanks for phrasing that so nicely. I know it's offensive to some people but it's also exactly my kind of stupid humor. It's been a bit of a moral conundrum for me, I don't want to be an asshole to people who haven't done anything, but I also don't want to self censor. Currently though, for any new accounts that I create, I prefer another username anyway, but for this one, inertia is winning.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#396

Post by asdff »

waihtis wrote: post #30
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you rallying? I perfectly understand why people aren’t rallying: it’s happening on the other side of the planet. What are we supposed to do?

Meanwhile, Europe was filled with BLM protests.

Believe it or not there are black people and racism in Europe as well.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#397

Post by asdff »

Razengan wrote: post #260
blindspot557 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because they are already rallying for BLM? Americans are too busy before the election.

BLM and US police brutality has already been replaced by the Belarusian protests, even in Wikipedia's Ongoing events. I guess everything's fine now.

Uhh, people are marching on the capital right now

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#398

Post by banmeagaindan2 »

chub500 wrote: post #336
banmeagaindan2 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Values! Let's talk about what is happening this minute. Somebody just talked to me and then disappeared. All sorts of people with political opinions are self editing and deleting their own comments - or being banned or shadowbanned because their opinions don't fit consensus. It is difficult for anybody to stand for their values in these conditions. China does not pretend to be a politically free society - but I belie…

There's a big difference between government censorship and internet company censorship. Both are problematic but other than that they aren't in the same league. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

Why a difference? Internet company censorship is at scale and often works to further censorship by other organizations - some of them are even governments.

Ignoring governments - who can have valid political and strategic reasons to be censors - the social media censorship is more serious because it is operating at the social layer - all those capillaries. Social consensus enforcement touches more people in everyday life.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#399

Post by frequentnapper »

rieter wrote: post #242
frequentnapper wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, so let them just continue to commit atrocities.

Why won't 350 million American citizens do something about their own government first, before engaging in moral grandstanding in respect to other countries? No, this doesn't mean just getting rid of Trump - the entire political spectrum is complicit in millions of deaths every decade. US calls itself a "Democracy", so you're supposed to be more empowered to make a change than an average Chinese citizen.

I'm not american.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#400

Post by hhjinks »

dragonwriter wrote: post #284
rieter wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Muslims did China actually kill? I mean, what's happening in Xinjiang is obviously very concerning, however I don't think anyone has ever produced any evidence that a literal genocide is happening. Mass incarceration? Perhaps. Brainwashing? Maybe. Genocide? Highly dubious.

> How many Muslims did China actually kill? [...] I don't think anyone has ever produced any evidence that a literal genocide is happening. Mass incarceration? Perhaps. Brainwashing? Maybe. Genocide? Highly dubious. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide , Article II: “genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, ra…

Thanks. There's no getting around it. This is genocide.
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