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Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

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Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#391

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

temporary_ wrote: post #289
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The freedom to not have to jump through ridiculous hoops like compiling from source just to use an application the distro didn't deem worthy of inclusion in their repo.

So .exe files it is? You can do that on Linux as well, by the way, it's just a horribly insecure way to distribute software.

I keep hearing that, and it is of course possible, but the point is that hardly anyone does it. That's what makes it meaningless that it can be done.

And it isn't insecure. If I trust the developer and get the software from them, it's just as good as trusting a repo maintained by random internets who have been known to not only not keep software in the repo up to date, but actually introduce vulnerabilities that weren't there before!

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#392

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

ti_ranger wrote: post #373
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flatpak is over-engineered garbage. You still can't even install things on different disks without setting up an entirely new 'installation' or whatever they call it. And you still need a repo. Meanwhile I can trivially make most Windows software work from a USB drive I can carry around between computers. AppImage can do that too, since it is a lot less over-engineered, but sadly very few developers use AppImage and…

> Flatpak is over-engineered garbage. But, it works, especially for the use case of the "I need the latest and greatest versions of two packages". > AppImage can do that too, since it is a lot less over-engineered, but sadly very few developers use AppImage and it even distributions like Nitriux that claim to support AppImages don't display icons for them. So, use one of the other 20 distros where AppImages just work…

Ignoring the issue with the oft-used fallback of distro roulette as a Linux evangelist defense mechanism, it isn't that they don't work, it's that their icons aren't displayed. There is not a single distro, including the ones that actually supposedly embrace AppImage, which displays AppImage icons correctly.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#393

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

megous wrote: post #311
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux is literally the most used operating system on phone... So what happens if/when Google switches to Fuchsia on their phones?

They can't. I mean they can on their phones. But that's a tiny percentage of the total Android HW. All the big SoC vendors would have to get on board and rewrite their milions of lines of their kernel code on top of Fuchsia. Android is also not just phones, but also on tablets, tv boxes, etc. This would just cause even more fragmentation in the Android ecosystem.

> All the big SoC vendors would have to get on board and rewrite their milions of lines of their kernel code on top of Fuchsia.

Apple's PPC to x86 transition was successful, as was their Carbon to Cocoa transition. If you want device driver specific examples, Microsoft's Win9x to XP transition was successful, if lengthy, as was its transition to WDDM for video drivers.

SoC and other hardware vendors go where the money is; they may grumble and drag their feet but they will make the transition if it's required of them.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#394

Post by AtlasBarfed »

I think one of the disturbing parts of the linux ecosystem is how it is starting to resemble the software turnover of a gigantic enterprise.

Gigantic enterprises have functioning systems, but the people that wrote them eventually leave, and the complexity of the systems is such that when they need to be updated, they are just rewritten from the ground up, with the usual mixed bag of new bugs, new features, and missing features from the previous regime.

This just seems what Wayland and system.d are, especially reading the list.

The number of distros is really really counterproductive.

Linux also DESPERATELY needs a massive hardware support information site with graphical matrices, to help guide purchases. This alone might shame hardware providers into sponsoring device drivers.

But realistically the window of Linux desktop adoption passed with Nadella taking over Microsoft and starting to right the ship on Windows, even if it is still utter garbage. There was a solid five years where Windows was being utterly insane and that was the time to strike.

Linux probably should just concentrate the resources of desktop into a near-perfect clone of OSX so they can at least unite forces with the macintosh people in usability / interface familiarity.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#395

Post by sgc »

aepiepaey wrote: post #314
sgc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This issue of Windows update and other lock in trends is 80% of the reason I just (in the last month) switched to a Linux desktop. The other 20% is that the ui on Linux has finally progressed enough that I could consider it the least worst option. That is a first since I tried many times and wound up reverting to Windows. So far the only thing that really bugs me is that I have to apply fixes in the terminal. Like in…

You may want to try Filezilla or gftp for something similar to WinSCP.

I'm using filezilla, it really doesn't compare in terms of ui or even functionality.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#396

Post by kkarakk »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #285
breakingcups wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? When I'm purchasing a computer, any computer, I know with (near) 100% certainty it will run Windows flawlessly. I definitely expect Windows to run on any random junk.

> What? When I'm purchasing a computer, any computer, I know with (near) 100% certainty it will run Windows flawlessly. I definitely expect Windows to run on any random junk. So do you expect Windows to run flawlessly on a Chromebook? I'd guess not. When you're purchasing random hardware in a store it most likely comes per-installed with Windows and has been made for and tuned for Windows. It's just that Windows has…

same difference, if chromebooks weren't actively hostile to windows they'd be running windows too.it's easier

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#398

Post by AsyncAwait »

kkarakk wrote: post #396
AsyncAwait wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What? When I'm purchasing a computer, any computer, I know with (near) 100% certainty it will run Windows flawlessly. I definitely expect Windows to run on any random junk. So do you expect Windows to run flawlessly on a Chromebook? I'd guess not. When you're purchasing random hardware in a store it most likely comes per-installed with Windows and has been made for and tuned for Windows. It's just that Windows has…

same difference, if chromebooks weren't actively hostile to windows they'd be running windows too.it's easier

If certain Windows laptops weren't actively hostile to Linux, they'd be running it smoothly out of the box too, what's your point?

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#399

Post by koffiezet »

sl1ck731 wrote: post #317
fyfy18 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least on Azure, Linux is leading as the top OS: https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ I assume this is true for most other cloud providers. But that doesn't take into account all the companies running racks of Windows servers in their basements.

From that url in September it was about half Linux "but sometimes slightly over half of Azure VMs are Linux." I'm not sure that is the win OP was looking for.

Keep in mind that this is Azure, the cloud provider with almost certainly the most Windows installs. They try to push all their existing corporate clients to the cloud, and from what I've seen in enterprise environments, they're very successful at that. I do not expect AWS or Google to have anywhere near Azure's numbers of Windows VM's deployed... I wouldn't be surprised it their hosted Windows VM's would be a rounding error compared to MS/Azure's install base.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#400

Post by koffiezet »

gmueckl wrote: post #76
blaze33 wrote: post #54

Linux as the open-sourced work of brilliant software developers wouldn't power most servers if it sucked. But could designing good desktops need more than just good code? Good kernels successfully run code. Good desktops successfully help users. I guess different goals require different designs? Edit: to clarify, I didn't mean desktops don't require well designed software. Just had in mind that a desktop also have to…

Wait, you are confounding some things. A software design is good when it allows all of its parts to be elegant and meet the requirements. In no way does that say that a desktop OS is required to be designed badly. Linux is powering servers and high performance computing because it is good at these things: mostly static hardware configuration, set up once during system installation high performance, modularity and the…

> This clash of UNIX-like concepts and modern user expectations is what is holding Linux back.

It did not stop OSX from achieving exactly what you're talking about, and if you look closely, its core is very explicit about its Unix underpinnings.

In my opinion it's not a "Unix" problem, but a bazaar/scale problem. In the bazaar world, ideally multiple competing solutions would pop up, ideas would be merged and which one or a few would end up top. The problem is that to implement even a single a good desktop system - and I mean top to bottom, not just a DE - would require a staggering amount of resources under a single unified goal and vision. The Linux desktop market is simply not big enough to support even one, never mind multiple competing systems. In the server space, Linux is absolutely massive, and doesn't have this problem.

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