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Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

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Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#101

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Anon1096 wrote: post #29

Most of these aren't Linux on Desktop issues that any day to day user will ever encounter. A lot of them yes, but stuff like the author's issues with x.org being a bad piece of software are completely orthogonal to anything a desktop user of Linux will care about. This list would be a lot better if it were cut to just the major issues.

Why is the defense for "there are problems with Linux" always some appeal to the workflow of a strawman 'average user'? A class of people which, I might add, still show no interest in using Linux.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#102

Post by ams6110 »

hartator wrote: post #21

The only thing about Linux I never really like is the package system. Like if you want to install a new software, you usually don’t get .exe or .dmg. If you are lucky, the developer or some fans took the time to package it. Then you can do ‘apt-get’ ‘yum’ or ‘pacman’. However, packages got stalled and sometimes don’t match the original author intent. You can also build from sources, but it takes time and you have to…

Here is what makes Linux work well for me: only run LTS versions. Never build your own kernel. Never install anything that isn't in the package manager.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#103

Post by pnutjam »

dsego wrote: post #61
gerdesj wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have never used Linux in any form. There are multiple package managers, granted. However, one strength they all share is: "you usually don't get .exe or .dmg"! Absolutely! Apps are integrated and not simply add-ons as they are in Windows or Apple land. When I want to install say libreoffice or wireshark I simply ask the system to install them. I absolutely do not browse the internet and download something…

> When I update, all my system is updated - OS, apps and all. Except for when the distro "gods" don't bother updating a package for years, so you always get the "stable" 5-year old version.

Most websites also have rpm's and Deb packages.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#104

Post by gsich »

Dahoon wrote: post #16

> "most Windows 95 applications still run fine in Windows 10" Uhm, no. Not really. With hacks by the user (or OS) maybe, but if hacks are allowed then most of that list can be deleted.

Yes, really. Most games do not however. I don't have programs though for testing.

Edit: http://www.ecsis.net/pub/netuser/ftp.html

tried Rftp, worked with Windows 10. At least 22 years of compatibility.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#105

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

mixedCase wrote: post #36
hartator wrote: post #21

The only thing about Linux I never really like is the package system. Like if you want to install a new software, you usually don’t get .exe or .dmg. If you are lucky, the developer or some fans took the time to package it. Then you can do ‘apt-get’ ‘yum’ or ‘pacman’. However, packages got stalled and sometimes don’t match the original author intent. You can also build from sources, but it takes time and you have to…

Between Flatpak and AppImages we have good solutions for both people who prefer package managers as well as people who prefer a single file that can be run on double click. As far as solutions goes, this problem is solved. They just need to be better known by software distributors.

Flatpak is over-engineered garbage. You still can't even install things on different disks without setting up an entirely new 'installation' or whatever they call it. And you still need a repo. Meanwhile I can trivially make most Windows software work from a USB drive I can carry around between computers.

AppImage can do that too, since it is a lot less over-engineered, but sadly very few developers use AppImage and it even distributions like Nitriux that claim to support AppImages don't display icons for them. Could be trivially solved with a standard for embedding icons in ELF, but the unix world hates the very concept of a program that isn't spread all over the file hierarchy and isn't full of hard-coded paths so it'll never happen.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#106

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

young_unixer wrote: post #63
hartator wrote: post #21

The only thing about Linux I never really like is the package system. Like if you want to install a new software, you usually don’t get .exe or .dmg. If you are lucky, the developer or some fans took the time to package it. Then you can do ‘apt-get’ ‘yum’ or ‘pacman’. However, packages got stalled and sometimes don’t match the original author intent. You can also build from sources, but it takes time and you have to…

I agree with you. The OS should give you only some essential end user applications (a bare-bones text editor, a terminal, a browser) and then the user should get their specific use applications (DAW, 3D modelling software, game engine, etc) from the application developer, not the OS maker.

We appear to be a dying breed. People who don't like walled gardens and middlemen between them and the people who make the tools they use.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#107

Post by ilovecaching »

baroffoos wrote: post #62
0xb100db1ade wrote: post #10

What I get out of this is that while each of these issues may be individually dismissed, they together make for a very "non-premium" experience. I use linux myself, but when people I know try it out, they immediately leave after encountering problems with audio, dpi scaling, etc

I have found its super dependent on what hardware you get, Especially on laptops. I always pick hardware that works perfectly with linux and I am left with a very premium experience but when using linux on bad hardware like macbooks and broadcom wifi everything just doesn't work right.

Yep. Exactly this. If you get a laptop that a GNOME developer uses, chances are you’ll run into maybe two issues a year. But try to get GNOME to run on two 4K displays and an RTX.

But here’s the thing. Linux has won. Desktop is a dying market. Linux is literally the most used operating system on phone and in the data center, which is where it counts.

The DE has gotten much better transitively from all the work that’s gone into those other use cases. But we still have a gamer market that is incredibly proprietary holding up the middle finger to those of us who think proprietary drivers and codecs are evil relics of a less open world.

If you really want to see Linux on the DE, boycott NVIDIA, or write them a letter.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#108

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

dsego wrote: post #61
gerdesj wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have never used Linux in any form. There are multiple package managers, granted. However, one strength they all share is: "you usually don't get .exe or .dmg"! Absolutely! Apps are integrated and not simply add-ons as they are in Windows or Apple land. When I want to install say libreoffice or wireshark I simply ask the system to install them. I absolutely do not browse the internet and download something…

> When I update, all my system is updated - OS, apps and all. Except for when the distro "gods" don't bother updating a package for years, so you always get the "stable" 5-year old version.

And when the distro decides you have to give up some software because of a conflict it can't handle.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#109

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

stendinator wrote: post #6

_For instance Microsoft and Apple regularly update ntoskrnl.exe and mach_kernel respectively for security fixes, but it's unheard of that these updates ever compromised the boot process._ I had updates rendering my computer unbootable by messing up the MBR at least twice.

It did used to be true. Windows 10 and its adoption of no-QA and "our time is worth more than the users'" parts of open source culture put an end to that.

Re: Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)

#110

Post by pnutjam »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #97
pnutjam wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try OpenSuse, it has the best hardware support by far.

This is another issue. Have a problem? Don't worry, someone will helpfully tell you to try another distro. Have a problem with that one too? Don't worry, someone will helpfully tell you to try another distro.

Yeah, and there is no dearth of low quality instructions on Linux.

IMHO, Ubuntu is particularly bad about this. All I can say is what I use everyday with no problems.

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