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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

391–400 of 451 posts

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#391
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to also reconsider different kinds of corporations, specifically those that are wholly owned and operated by the people who work for them.

Coops, I'm not familiar with any in the IT space, care to share?

I'm not really familiar with any either. I'm convinced it could work well though. Especially if it starts as a consultancy and then moves into building things.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#392
post #277
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to also reconsider different kinds of corporations, specifically those that are wholly owned and operated by the people who work for them.

It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to work for one.

Do you? If so, which?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise fair points about the spending of money on physical assets/consumption. Can you elaborate similarly on the potential problems with how saved/invested money is allocated?

Well, at a very high level, banks can use saved money to lend to businesses or individuals at a given multiplier. If a bank has insufficient deposits, it can't lend any more money. This is called fractional-reserve banking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking So when you make a deposit, you are effectively causing a fraction of that deposit to be available for lending. This is what you're getting…

> any normal person with any financial savvy knows that market returns are much better than deposit returns

And, if I understand the arguments, that's confirmed by Piketty's r (return on capital) > g (economic growth rate). My concern is that more money is getting tied up in chasing financial assets than in the real economy (houses, hamburgers, cows, etc.) If you have financial assets, that's good. If you don't, that's bad. Most people don't have financial assets. Sooner or later something's going to correct that trend. It'd be better to find a non-violent solution.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#394
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know there are news websites based in Europe right?

Sure, and they're a) subject to European regulators and b) have a largely European audience. The same is not true for the LA Times.

and their economic model its vastly different from american?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#395
post #4

It’s interesting how much momentum there is in these processes. After several decades of big wage gains, during the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, the nominal increases could not be stopped, even as the economy weakened in the 1970s and 1980s. Back then all the wage cuts had to done through inflation. Nowadays there is no inflation, and no momentum to restart wage increases. This part of the article says it right: “””The u…

Well, yeah. This is fully intended. It keeps the proletariat in tatters. With threats to food and lodging, they won't protest and won't rise up. It's a very effective means of control. Bread and circuses, people.

Please don't post ideological rants to HN. We're looking for substantive comments here. That means comments that contain information rather than rhetoric.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice is you make sure you have your savings in gear and then live paycheck to paycheck. That is you fund your 401k (IRA, HSA, ...), and set aside some emergency savings. However unless you have a specific short term goal in mind you should be spending everything else and enjoying life to the best of your remaining income. Of course that $8/month difference isn't much savings, but it is a lunch out vs heating lef…

>My advice is you make sure you have your savings in gear and then live paycheck to paycheck People don't live paycheck to paycheck by choice, usually. Savings first is not an option if it means not paying rent, bills, or food.

yes and no. Most people do live that way by choice, but they don't really realize they are making a choice. You need to pay rent, but very few people live in the cheapest apartment they can find. You have to pay bills, but you can make them much cheaper (it means you hang out in local parks because there is no TV, internet, and you avoid even so much as turning on a light). You need to eat, but beans and rice are cheap.

How much savings you need is an open question of course. To live as above without income doesn't require a lot of savings, so you start saving less and add some luxury.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#397
post #42
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked around in a couple of european countries and I can confirm that the freelance rates for software development today are the same or typically less than in 2001. The software developer golden age was in the mid-nineties here in Europe, and then the rates and salaries have stagnated (but not the inflation). Also, the contractual conditions are getting worse. We are now many times offered contracts with a ter…

How is that enforced on the employer side, keeping employees in their contract?

If you quit, they will fire you

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#398
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now what's the dream for these workers? They can never afford to save up on their 500 euro a month. They can never get a loan to open their own business. Work harder. Make more money if you want to do your own thing. Surely there are professionals in Greece making good money working as employees for others. What are they doing that the lazy uneducated worker is not? Do more of that and less complaining that you're…

Let's ignore the fact that there simply aren't enough high paying positions for everyone that "tries hard enough". Let's simply discuss why people might not always go for the highest paying job they could get. What most people that aren't doing everything optimally to improve their situation is that they're succumbing to common human logical fallacies. People don't see that there are jobs that can potentially lead th…

> A lot of the "lazy uneducated" workers you mentioned spent years getting a university education, up to the PhD level frequently, and they feel they're invested in a thing they might be good at or they might enjoy practicing. Objectively, they should give it up. Subjectively, I can understand wanting to hold on to a small hope that you might eventually get to do the thing you enjoy doing for a living.

And all it takes is one(!) bad/uninformed decision in your past: skip STEM.

One of most cirurgic comments I read in HN. It's a pity that is buried in the thread.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#399
post #169

Expecting public companies to do anything except optimize for shareholder value, is pure folly. We can debate morality all day, but there's a more practical reason for this: shareholders hold all the power over management. Regardless of how unhappy you as a customer/employee are, you do not have the direct power to fire the directors/executives. You only have the indirect power of pressuring the shareholders, and hop…

It isn't that simple. A company that does "good things" for their employees can in turn reap results from those "good things". Better employees, or employees that stay long enough to have experience both have a value that returns back to shareholders. Of course how much so spend on those "good things" is an optimization problem.

> Better employees, or employees that stay long enough to have experience both have a value that returns back to shareholders.

You're making the argument that companies should be nicer to their employees, because that is in the best interests of their shareholders. The linked article is implying that companies should be nicer to their employees, despite the best interests of their shareholders. These are 2 completely orthogonal arguments. The first is a moral argument, whereas the second is a business-tactics argument.

Since you brought it up, I certainly agree with the business-tactics argument to some extent. Companies like Google have certainly done well for their shareholders, by keeping their employees happy. But then again, companies like Walmart have shown that in some markets, employee happiness is barely correlated with shareholder returns.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people have been working for a decade and a half to open up global migration of workers, as well as allowing China and others to export whatever it wants at any price (and several other "details", like IP theft of course). When 2 markets merge, prices converge. What are engineer wages in China, the Phillipines, India, ... ? Oh wait ... Second: with opening up markets, ... if there is one well-known fact in econom…

Engineers wages in China often surpass even SV wages. China is not cheap anymore if you live in Beijing or Shanghai for example.

They don't surpass SV salaries but can definitely match EU wages.
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