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Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

theregister.com

381–390 of 536 posts

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, Europeans used to trust their US partners, and built a lot of infrastructure on US services. This trust has been betrayed, so things now need to change. It never existed to begin with with China, so no change is necessary. That's not "melodramatic".

There never was a relationship of mutual trust, it was always a relationship of Europe being under the wing of the US as a buffer against the USSR. The US now wants to push Europe out of the nest, but most Europeans have only ever known life "living in their parents house". Building an independent Europe is not compatible with the current European ethos of work/life/life/life balance, and will likely result in Europe…

Neither the European welfare state nor China's authoritarian leftism are socialist. They are, respectively, welfare-state capitalism and nationalist "socialism" (aka Naziism).

On the European side, socialism is a question of who owns businesses. If the majority of businesses are owned by the people who are working at those businesses, you have a socialist economy. Welfare states, regulatory regimes, and high tax rates do not change the ownership of businesses, they are about who provides the infrastructure around those businesses. If you have an economy where infrastructure is owned by a liberal nation-state, and businesses are owned by whoever gambled capital on the venture, then you get a capitalist economy. If your infrastructure is privately owned by individuals, then those owners become feudal lords and you get feudalism.

On the Chinese side, you might point out that there are laws that require CCP ownership of all businesses, eat the party line that says the CCP is the representative of the working class, and say, "hey that's a socialism". But this ownership and representation is purely nominal. The average Chinese worker has more or less zero political agency; speaking out gets you censored and harassed. How is that worker ownership? If, say, America started punishing individual shareholders who voted against Trump-aligned board members, we'd correctly recognize that the shareholders do not meaningfully own their businesses anymore.

"Moving into Daddy Xi's house" would be stupid. The EU and China are not aligned on basically any core value; it'd basically be a surrender of one to the other. Actually, to be clear, the EU isn't even aligned on basically any core value with itself[0]. In fact, I would argue that's a way bigger headwind than European workers being used to a top-heavy welfare state. The EU has the resources to build a sovereign cloud, or run its own military, or source its own energy. But for each one there are challenges posed by the uniquely decentralized structure of Europe:

- Europe could build a sovereign cloud, but probably not one for each member state. So they're going to have to agree what country holds the data, and agree that that country can and will spy on all the others.

- Europe could fund its own military, tell NATO to pound sand, and re-colonize America for the trouble. But who runs that military? Given the history of EU politics, it would be France and Germany, and every other country in the EU has a history of being colonized by France or Germany. They are not trustworthy.

- Europe could fix its energy dependence, but Germany thinks nuclear power is Satan and wants to backstop renewables with the dirtiest-burning coal you can mine.

You'll notice a recurring theme here. The problem with Europe is not its fiscal deficit, the perceived laziness of its workers, or what have you. It's the lack of trust. The most trustworthy member state of the European Union was the United States of America, and so that's why everyone put their data on American servers, and let America dominate NATO, and so on. This is not Europe getting kicked out of the nest, it's the kids realizing their parent is a gaslighting asshole and that all their siblings, including themselves, are cut from the same cloth.

[0] Trump's current tariff actions and threats of territory annexation have galvanized the European public against America's government. However, prior to Trump coming back, Europe was full of far-right nutjobs that were just as cringe. Actually, a lot of them are still in power in Europe, and they're way more competent and cunning than Cheeto Mussolini.

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#382
post #4

A necessary step to reduce risk to infrastructure given that the US government has become erratic and has decided it is now anti-Europe. The US means to undermine the EU: https://www.dw.com/en/will-trump-pull-italy-austria-poland-h... The US means to annex European territory: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0j9l08902eo It's the same reason you don't want Chinese equipment in your telecommunications infrastructure.…

this is not a new issue: airbus has been the victim of corporate espionage supposedly by boeing with aid by the nsa in a well documented case in november 2011, and they are not the only victim of US government agency supported corporate espionage: investigations into the selector lists that ran in the cabinet noir at DE-CIX have shown that a large part of them were targeting european corporations. and that predates t…

The French DGSE was also exposed targeting dozens of american tech aerospace companies in the 90s (and probably still are). That type of state-assisted industrial espionage is pretty common, even between "friendly" nations. I think what's different now is the US announcing its intent to meddle into internal EU politics and supporting political opposition.

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of European “cloud” providers, but there’s not one that offers anything even close to AWS/GCP/Cloudflare. If you need more than compute and S3, you’re pretty much SOL.

OVH? Upcloud? Scaleway? (searching more I found Koyeb, bunny cdn offers deno similar to cloudflare workers)

None of these remotely come close to their US counterparts. Not by a long shot.

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of European “cloud” providers, but there’s not one that offers anything even close to AWS/GCP/Cloudflare. If you need more than compute and S3, you’re pretty much SOL.

But would you need those functions to run your ERP and CRM systems (see the article)?

Yes. At an airbus scale, most definitely.

But to give you another example (from the article): Try migrating Google Workspace to an EU solution. Actually impossible. I tried it myself, and gave up. The closest you’ll get is Proton, which isn’t EU to begin with and doesn’t even have half of the features Google Workspace offers.

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#385
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should read HN. Don’t they know you can get Hetzner servers starting from $5/month?

Lmao but in all honesty, there are a lot of european cloud providers that I know and they are even cheaper than american counterparts like aws, azure, gcp. Personally I like european cloud too but I dont have so much as an preference and it depends but the current environment of america does seem a little hostile but not the fault of datacenters in america but I hope that hostility slows down

Sadly there are still no European cloud providers. There are European hosting and VPS companies with aspirations but that's not the same.

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of European “cloud” providers, but there’s not one that offers anything even close to AWS/GCP/Cloudflare. If you need more than compute and S3, you’re pretty much SOL.

If you need much more than compute, managed k8s and blob storage, then you're architecting yourself for a vendor lock-in.

Welcome to the real world. I’m not saying this is a good thing, but this is what’s happened. That’s why everyone is doing AWS. To pretend this is a non-issue and can easily be fixed by investing a bit in development does not reflect reality.

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#387
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the last thing the US did of any relevance? Help with WWII. Just as stupid claim.

I mean, we still borderline run the world, so there's that. In this very OP it's major news that Europe is trying to move off of US technology, because we're just so dominant.

only for the remaining part of the decade, if the US is lucky

trump pissing away a century of hard-won soft power handed the century to China

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Architect of the Ukraine crisis is Russian armed forces crossing the border and occupying the land, everything else is irrelevant. Russia's hostility towards Ukraine starts well before the 2022 invasion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war

We are discussing 2014. Russian armed forces were present there from the get-go, and hybrid approaches were there long before 2014 too.

Was that when Obama capitulated to Putin and permitted him to annex Crimea? Perhaps that was the "more flexibility" that he secretly promised Putin he would have after his election. I wonder what he got in return for it.

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> want to annex a European territory Greenland is not in europe. It may be a danish colony but that doesn't make it "european territory" any more than french guiana is. EU territory? Sure. But europe is a penninsula on the western flank of eurasia. Edit: huh I had no idea how complicated the classification of eu territories is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_territories_of_members...

Does that mean Hawaii isn’t part of US because it’s far away from mainland?

You got it baby, free hawaii

Re: Airbus to migrate critical apps to a sovereign Euro cloud

#390

Having worked with all major European clouds: Good luck, have fun opening a lot of support cases for things that should work ootb.

One of the reason is a lot of those "EU Sovereign Clouds" were malicious cash grabs. It happened several times in the last decade: - First politicians raise the alarm about "digital sovereignty" - Then some create new EU sovereign clouds that are pitched/forced on corporations - They usually do not work, get consolidated and then the scam is revealed The biggest reveal was when we discovered and warned one of our cli…

Didn't the Spanish govt just award Huawei a contract for their lawful intercept program? You can't make it up.
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